# Apply "mailing list mode" per category
**URL:** https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772
**Category:** Feature
**Created:** [July 25, 2016, 5:36pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772 "2016-07-25T17:36:02Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@pfaffman](https://meta.discourse.org/u/pfaffman)
#### Post date: [March 21, 2018, 2:44pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772/42 "2018-03-21T14:44:19Z")
If you’re going to replace a set of mailing lists with discourse, there needs to be an easy way to subscribe to or watch categories but also mute the ones you’re not subscribed to.
But I think you’re right that watching a category and a per category making list mode are the same thing, or maybe a mailing list mode that turns off email for all but watched categories is what’s needed.
This is brainstorming, not a recommendation.
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### Author:  [@erlend\_sh](https://meta.discourse.org/u/erlend_sh)
#### Post date: [March 22, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772/43 "2018-03-22T00:29:43Z")
> [@sam](#):
>
> By default when you enable mailing list mode “all categories” are included, if you don’t like that you can clear All and select the specific categories.
I think in addition to this we should also have a “Email All” option in the category notifications dropdown:
@LeoMcA correct me if I’m wrong but I’m assuming the Mozilla community would really like to be able to set mailing-list settings from here.
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### Author:  [@sam](https://meta.discourse.org/u/sam)
#### Post date: [March 22, 2018, 12:33am UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772/44 "2018-03-22T00:33:28Z")
This is tricky cause this is a “parallel” state. I am also concerned that this is a very uncommon feature and baking it deep into the UI everywhere is overkill.
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### Author:  [@erlend\_sh](https://meta.discourse.org/u/erlend_sh)
#### Post date: [March 22, 2018, 12:35am UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772/45 "2018-03-22T00:35:59Z")
I just see no good reason why it should work any different from the rest of our category notifications settings:
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### Author:  [@sam](https://meta.discourse.org/u/sam)
#### Post date: [March 22, 2018, 12:38am UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772/46 "2018-03-22T00:38:31Z")
Cause it is a completely orthogonal system that operates in parallel with the rest. It has close to zero impact on existing notifications. Only thing it ensures is that emails do not double up.
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### Author:  [@LeoMcA](https://meta.discourse.org/u/LeoMcA)
#### Post date: [March 22, 2018, 2:00am UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772/47 "2018-03-22T02:00:21Z")
> [@erlend\_sh](#):
>
> @LeoMcA correct me if I’m wrong but I’m assuming the Mozilla community would really like to be able to set mailing-list settings from here.
I’m of mixed opinions on this. With the Mozilla use-case that would be the best place to put it - burying it away in a user’s preferences completely disassociates it from the category and makes the feature near impossible to discover - but for every user welcoming it I imagine there would be many more finding the new menu horrifically confusing.
I don’t think it’s possible to square this circle and make a UI which is understandable for both the classical-Discourse/forum use-case and the Mozilla/mailman-esque use-case for anyone other than people like us deeply involved in the project.
@erlend_sh I still think your post from last summer about this is brilliant, and I regret I haven’t had the time to throw any development resources behind making it a reality:
> [@More granular settings for email notifications](https://meta.discourse.org/t/more-granular-settings-for-email-notifications/64615):
>
> Continuing the discussion from [Apply "mailing list mode" per category](https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772/16): As @LeoMcA and others have pointed out, the “true mailing list mode” is most effectively accomplished by simply enabling Send me email notifications even when I am active on the site The only thing missing from there as far as mailing list users are concerned is a bit more granularity in the email settings, plus an awareness of the existence of said settings. I made this mockup based on the following assumptions/hypotheses…
I wonder if this per-category email-only notification setting we’re discussing should exist like “Enable Watching First Post” in your proposal. That way we could set sane defaults on an instance level (not show it on Meta Discourse, definitely show it on Mozilla Discourse, for example) but still allow power users do whatever they want on any instance.
EDIT: In the meantime, I would agree with @sam on the placement of UI. I don’t think adding this feature should depend on the whole-scale revamp of the behind-the-scenes notification settings. Indeed, that should probably be done separately from this - being able to additionally hide the category-level tracking option by default would be very useful on Mozilla Discourse considering how useless the option is there.
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### Author:  [@erlend\_sh](https://meta.discourse.org/u/erlend_sh)
#### Post date: [March 22, 2018, 2:06am UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772/48 "2018-03-22T02:06:40Z")
> [@LeoMcA](#):
>
> I wonder if this per-category email-only notification setting we’re discussing should exist like “Enable Watching First Post” in your proposal. That way we could set sane defaults on an instance level (not show it on Meta Discourse, definitely show it on Mozilla Discourse, for example) but still allow power users do whatever they want on any instance.
Yep, that’s what I want. I already imagined it would work this way seeing as mailing list mode, as opposed to watch-first-topic, is _already_ something you need to opt into.
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### Author:  [@icaria36](https://meta.discourse.org/u/icaria36)
#### Post date: [January 7, 2019, 9:13am UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772/49 "2019-01-07T09:13:06Z")
As a member of a community with a strong mailing list culture / legacy, I still believe that “mailing list mode per category” is a simpler approach that would make happy the users of mailing lists.
“Mailing list mode” at a category level should allow users to keep a full email archive with the activity in that category. “Watching” a category is not enough because (as far as I can see) misses email notifications for posts the system knows that the user has read via web, including their own.
Maybe this has been proposed by someone before (I have read this thread and some spinoffs but I might have missed comments), but I think the implementation could be relatively simple, at least UI-wise.
- Create an admin setting to enable `Maling list mode` per category (disabled by default).
- When enabled, this setting allows to enable `Mailing list mode` in specific categories (new categories would have it disabled by default).
- When a category has `Mailing list mode` enabled, users see an option `Email everything` (or similar wording) on top of `Watching`.
- Selecting this mode assures that all posts will generate emails regardless of whether the user has seen the posts in the forum or has authored them. Activity in this category will not generate web notifications because it is assumed that the user is reading the emails instead.
Sounds reasonable?
Note that in a real scenario of mailing list & web forum integration / migration, it is very important that mailing list users feel comfortable when the process starts. Quite often strong stakeholders, influencers and decision-makers on a topic like “Let’s deprecate Mailman and use Discourse instead” will be among these long term contributors with email-based workflows. They will be way more open to experimentation if they can keep their workflows untouched. Then, over time, they will see the full benefits of the integration / migration and for most the “mailing list mode” will give way to other levels of watching categories in the now wider and better integrated discussion forum.
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### Author:  [@sam](https://meta.discourse.org/u/sam)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2019, 12:15am UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772/50 "2019-01-08T00:15:18Z")
In general I am fine with:
> [@Apply "mailing list mode" per category](https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772/41):
>
> I think it is fine but I would place this in the UI here: By default when you enable mailing list mode “all categories” are included, if you don’t like that you can clear All and select the specific categories.
But for now you can simply mute the categories you do not want in your email box and enable mailing list mode and be done.
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### Author:  [@polyglot](https://meta.discourse.org/u/polyglot)
#### Post date: [November 6, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772/51 "2019-11-06T16:34:52Z")
> [@sam](#):
>
> But for now you can simply mute the categories you do not want in your email box and enable mailing list mode and be done.
This doesn’t seem to be working for us.
I have the mailinglist mode on and muted a (sub)category.
What works is that I don’t get emails form the muted sub-category.
What doesn’t work is that the new topics do not show on the web page at all, not on Latest, not on new , not on Unread and not on Top.
Where they Do show up, is if I display all the categories homepage, then I see the latest topics in the specific Category box.
Is this a bug or am I missing something?
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### Author:  [@Remah](https://meta.discourse.org/u/Remah)
#### Post date: [November 8, 2019, 10:31am UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772/52 "2019-11-08T10:31:08Z")
> [@polyglot](#):
>
> What doesn’t work is that the new topics do not show on the web page at all, not on Latest, not on new , not on Unread and not on Top.
If you mute a category or sub-category then topics in that category:
- won’t trigger any notifications
- won’t appear in `Latest`
> [@Muted categories should not hide Tracked/Watched topics](https://meta.discourse.org/t/muted-categories-should-not-hide-tracked-watched-topics/34441/23):
>
> I made that copy update, but we really need to confirm that muting a topic will hide it from latest as well.
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### Author:  [@polyglot](https://meta.discourse.org/u/polyglot)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772/53 "2019-11-17T17:17:24Z")
> [@Remah](#):
>
> If you mute a category or sub-category then topics in that category:
>
> - won’t trigger any notifications
> - won’t appear in `Latest`
Yes, I get that. But for me “Latest” is or the same as “New” or “Top” or “Unread”.
Am I correct to assume this, OR, when you write “Latest”, you mean all of the above?
Second, why do the muted subcategory topics appear in the Mother-category box, on the homepage?
From what I read: "they will not appear on the categories ", they shouldn’t appear there.
Any feedback?
Is this a bug?
Thanks for clarifying this for me.
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### Author:  [@Remah](https://meta.discourse.org/u/Remah)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772/54 "2019-11-17T18:11:57Z")
1. Yes
2. That is the behaviour I expect. Muting a subcategory doesn’t hide them in the category.
I don’t know where you read “they will not appear on the categories” so I couldn’t check that source.
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### Author:  [@polyglot](https://meta.discourse.org/u/polyglot)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772/55 "2019-11-17T18:15:24Z")
1. Thank you for clarifying this!
> [@Remah](#):
>
> I don’t know where you read “they will not appear on the categories” so I couldn’t check that source.
In user-\> Preferences → Notifications-\> Categories-\> Muted
Under Muted, that is the text describing the Muted list:
_You will not be notified of anything about new topics in these categories, **and they will not appear on the categories** or latest pages._
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### Author:  [@Remah](https://meta.discourse.org/u/Remah)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2019, 6:35pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772/56 "2019-11-17T18:35:12Z")
AFAIK:
- that setting only works for new registrations which you are not:
> [@Muted Default Categories Not Working](https://meta.discourse.org/t/muted-default-categories-not-working/56425/3):
>
> This doesn’t seem like a bug to me. Default Muted Categories in Admin \> Settings do not work that way, it defaults the Muted Categories Preference for new registrations, not existing. Instead you have to add that category to the Muted Category preference for all existing users (including your own).
- If you don’t want the sub-category to appear for all users then you should set it in the `Default categories muted`:
> [@Exclude category posts from displaying on home page?](https://meta.discourse.org/t/exclude-category-posts-from-displaying-on-home-page/125035/11):
>
> In above screenshot, the total user count (30) is fetched from the about model (about.json URL). Now I’m trying to include it in the site settings page model itself.
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### Author:  [@polyglot](https://meta.discourse.org/u/polyglot)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772/57 "2019-11-17T18:52:31Z")
I am not talking about “Default Muted Categories in Admin”.
I am talking about a User that want to add a subcategory to the Muted list.
If this is really the behavior expected, than the description in really confusing.
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### Author:  [@Remah](https://meta.discourse.org/u/Remah)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2019, 7:16pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772/58 "2019-11-17T19:16:40Z")
Sorry, I got confused.
After you mute a (sub)category for a user then no new topics - see bold text in the setting text quoted below - should appear but existing topics can e.g. if they have been read. So can you confirm whether these are new topics or existing topics that are appearing from a suppressed (sub)category.
> You will not be notified of anything about **new topics** in these categories, and they will not appear on the categories or latest pages.
It does look a little strange when the topics appear but their category is suppressed.
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### Author:  [@polyglot](https://meta.discourse.org/u/polyglot)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2019, 7:31pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772/59 "2019-11-17T19:31:28Z")
> [@Remah](#):
>
> It does look a little strange when the topics appear but their category is suppressed.
Yes, I can confirm that NEW topics of the muted sub-category are being listed in the "mother"category square on the home page.
Bug …?
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### Author:  [@Remah](https://meta.discourse.org/u/Remah)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2019, 8:04pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772/60 "2019-11-17T20:04:56Z")
May be a bug.
If I make Categories my home page in mobile then I can see my muted subcategory when I don’t expect to. But it shouldn’t be visible according to:
> [@Categories missing from homepage due to muting](https://meta.discourse.org/t/categories-missing-from-homepage-due-to-muting/100666/8):
>
> Hi Theo, There was a recent change [https://github.com/discourse/discourse/pull/6531](https://github.com/discourse/discourse/pull/6531) where if a user mutes a category in their preferences here then that category is also not displayed on the /categories page (which happens to be the homepage on your community) Can you please make sure that users that have the issue on your community don’t have those categories muted?
I’m not sure if this only applies to first-level categories and not subcategories?
I will try on desktop but that will be 4 hours from now.
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### Author:  [@polyglot](https://meta.discourse.org/u/polyglot)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/apply-mailing-list-mode-per-category/47772/61 "2019-11-17T20:20:52Z")
> [@Remah](#):
>
> I will try on desktop but that will be 4 hours from now.
I am on a desktop.
But thank you for trying to clarify this. You have been the only one up till now.
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