# New members can't request to join a group
**URL:** https://meta.discourse.org/t/new-members-cant-request-to-join-a-group/63626
**Category:** Bug
**Created:** [30. Mai 2017 um 17:11 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/new-members-cant-request-to-join-a-group/63626 "2017-05-30T17:11:22Z")
**Posts on this page:** 17
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Martin\_Cash](https://meta.discourse.org/u/Martin_Cash)
#### Post date: [30. Mai 2017 um 17:11 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/new-members-cant-request-to-join-a-group/63626/1 "2017-05-30T17:11:22Z")
Hi, all. What is the reason why a new member would see this message when they request to join a group? The only thing I can think of is that user level 0 can’t send PMs?
I tested this out with a new user that I created…
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### Author:  [@sam](https://meta.discourse.org/u/sam)
#### Post date: [30. Mai 2017 um 17:13 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/new-members-cant-request-to-join-a-group/63626/2 "2017-05-30T17:13:05Z")
@tgxworld we are going to need to add a TL0 bypass here
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### Author:  [@codinghorror](https://meta.discourse.org/u/codinghorror)
#### Post date: [30. Mai 2017 um 20:56 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/new-members-cant-request-to-join-a-group/63626/4 "2017-05-30T20:56:42Z")
I think this is a muted user? Muted users can’t PM the user who muted them.
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### Author:  [@Martin\_Cash](https://meta.discourse.org/u/Martin_Cash)
#### Post date: [30. Mai 2017 um 21:53 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/new-members-cant-request-to-join-a-group/63626/5 "2017-05-30T21:53:18Z")
This was a new user that I created who hasn’t yet posted. To verify it wasn’t because the user was muted, I went to each of the group owner’s notification profiles and there were no muted users listed.
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### Author:  [@sam](https://meta.discourse.org/u/sam)
#### Post date: [30. Mai 2017 um 21:56 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/new-members-cant-request-to-join-a-group/63626/6 "2017-05-30T21:56:08Z")
Yeah, I can confirm this:
Quite a few layers of bug here…
Also… it is quite brutal that “to” is blank for request membership groups with no owner.
The UI should not even allow you to have a request membership group with no owner.
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### Author:  [@tgxworld](https://meta.discourse.org/u/tgxworld)
#### Post date: [2. Juni 2017 um 12:59 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/new-members-cant-request-to-join-a-group/63626/7 "2017-06-02T12:59:38Z")
What caused the 500 error?
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### Author:  [@tgxworld](https://meta.discourse.org/u/tgxworld)
#### Post date: [2. Juni 2017 um 13:00 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/new-members-cant-request-to-join-a-group/63626/8 "2017-06-02T13:00:22Z")
Users that can’t PM yet will not be allowed to request membership for a group
[https://github.com/discourse/discourse/commit/5f441a2614b4948e79388af578a9260cfed1e86c](https://github.com/discourse/discourse/commit/5f441a2614b4948e79388af578a9260cfed1e86c)
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### Author:  [@sam](https://meta.discourse.org/u/sam)
#### Post date: [2. Juni 2017 um 13:03 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/new-members-cant-request-to-join-a-group/63626/9 "2017-06-02T13:03:45Z")
It heavily limits the use of open groups, especially if people join a community just to join a group. People should be allowed to request to join even at TL0 imo.
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### Author:  [@tgxworld](https://meta.discourse.org/u/tgxworld)
#### Post date: [2. Juni 2017 um 13:08 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/new-members-cant-request-to-join-a-group/63626/10 "2017-06-02T13:08:30Z")
Then I think we need to move away from using a PM as the way to request for a membership. We need a group admin page where they can approve/reject requests to join a group. Sending a PM to join a group is proving to be a nightmare now. Allowing a bypass would also mean that TL0 can abuse the PM feature. I believe that `min_trust_level_to_send_messages` site setting needs to be respected here.
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### Author:  [@sam](https://meta.discourse.org/u/sam)
#### Post date: [2. Juni 2017 um 13:11 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/new-members-cant-request-to-join-a-group/63626/11 "2017-06-02T13:11:22Z")
Not really, you would still have a dedicated route for this, the dedicated route can create the PM and the PM can be canned and limited to N requests for invite per day.
This also would “speed up” the request invite process a lot and reduce confusion.
- Click “request invite”
- We disable button and render “Invite requested”
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### Author:  [@tgxworld](https://meta.discourse.org/u/tgxworld)
#### Post date: [2. Juni 2017 um 13:17 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/new-members-cant-request-to-join-a-group/63626/12 "2017-06-02T13:17:37Z")
Ah I like this idea where the user wouldn’t have to type a custom message anymore. I’ll need to look through the discussions in the past for this feature though because I might have triggered the composer client side for a reason.
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### Author:  [@tgxworld](https://meta.discourse.org/u/tgxworld)
#### Post date: [2. Juni 2017 um 13:32 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/new-members-cant-request-to-join-a-group/63626/13 "2017-06-02T13:32:17Z")
> [@sam](#):
>
> Also… it is quite brutal that “to” is blank for request membership groups with no owner.
>
> The UI should not even allow you to have a request membership group with no owner.
Ah we’re missing a validation here for the `Group` model. `Group#allow_membership_requests` shouldn’t be allowed to `true` for groups with no owners. Will automatically fix the client side problem too.
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### Author:  [@sam](https://meta.discourse.org/u/sam)
#### Post date: [2. Juni 2017 um 14:08 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/new-members-cant-request-to-join-a-group/63626/14 "2017-06-02T14:08:23Z")
I had an idea 🔦
Why not send the message from `system` or `discobot` with the canned body of:
> From: @system
> Title: @sam requested access to amazing frogs
> @sam (Sam Saffron) requested to join the group @amazing\_frogs, reply with the text “grant” to grant access.
Reply
> Sure, grant him access
Matches `/grant/i` so
> OK, @sam was added to the @amazing\_frogs group
This system has a HUGE advantage that it allows people to grant access much quicker, cause they can simply reply to an email.
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### Author:  [@tgxworld](https://meta.discourse.org/u/tgxworld)
#### Post date: [5. Juni 2017 um 02:08 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/new-members-cant-request-to-join-a-group/63626/15 "2017-06-05T02:08:46Z")
> [@tgxworld](#):
>
> Ah we’re missing a validation here for the Group model. Group#allow\_membership\_requests shouldn’t be allowed to true for groups with no owners. Will automatically fix the client side problem too.
Fixed in
[https://github.com/discourse/discourse/commit/ac6c1acbed7817f2769810abf8d8f47080799151](https://github.com/discourse/discourse/commit/ac6c1acbed7817f2769810abf8d8f47080799151)
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### Author:  [@tgxworld](https://meta.discourse.org/u/tgxworld)
#### Post date: [7. Juni 2017 um 08:17 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/new-members-cant-request-to-join-a-group/63626/16 "2017-06-07T08:17:03Z")
I still feel like creating a group owners membership management page will be much better for us in the long run instead of the “request membership via a PM” approach. We can just send a notifications to all group owners notifying them of a pending requests queue and use a button to grant the user membership.
We used a PM in the 1.7 release because it was the easiest thing without having to spend too much time on it. Having special triggers in a text can quickly become a nightmare to handle based on my experience building discobot.
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### Author:  [@tgxworld](https://meta.discourse.org/u/tgxworld)
#### Post date: [13. Juni 2017 um 08:54 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/new-members-cant-request-to-join-a-group/63626/17 "2017-06-13T08:54:38Z")
@sam I threw in a quick fix so that all users no matter what their TL is will be able to submit a request to join a group.
[https://github.com/discourse/discourse/commit/a5d3abc9b6888c382e0094ba03074aff8a450fec](https://github.com/discourse/discourse/commit/a5d3abc9b6888c382e0094ba03074aff8a450fec)
I’m closing this bug report but will be opening another topic to discuss a better flow for group memberships requests.
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### Author:  [@tgxworld](https://meta.discourse.org/u/tgxworld)
#### Post date: [13. Juni 2017 um 08:54 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/new-members-cant-request-to-join-a-group/63626/18 "2017-06-13T08:54:40Z")