# Quality of French Translations **URL:** \ **Category:** Translations\ **Created:** [December 13, 2019, 4:07pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/quality-of-french-translations/135871 "2019-12-13T16:07:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![syl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/meta/user_avatar/meta.discourse.org/syl/32/98883_2.png) [@syl](https://meta.discourse.org/u/syl)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2020, 2:55pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/quality-of-french-translations/135871/21 "2020-01-23T14:55:08Z")
“Owner” is not necessarily a friendly word, but it has the merit of clarity. It is indeed used in many professional software applications (example [here](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/office365/admin/create-groups/office-365-groups?view=o365-worldwide)). For me, “My Groups (Manager)” is not understandable. ---
**Author:** ![hellekin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/meta/user_avatar/meta.discourse.org/hellekin/32/51636_2.png) [@hellekin](https://meta.discourse.org/u/hellekin)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2020, 3:04pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/quality-of-french-translations/135871/22 "2020-01-23T15:04:43Z")
Ben, we are doing free software, so we can invite to emancipation rather than control. Sorry, I recently saw Harriet, and I think the notion of responsibility fits better to suggest a role in a group, especially if it involves conversation groups—in fact, I willingly use “host” to indicate what is expected of a group manager, namely that they take care of their members and the friendliness of its operation. ---
**Author:** ![Mevo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/meta/user_avatar/meta.discourse.org/mevo/32/187732_2.png) [@Mevo](https://meta.discourse.org/u/Mevo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2020, 5:02pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/quality-of-french-translations/135871/23 "2020-01-23T17:02:10Z")
> [@hellekin](#): > > We could use “affiliations” Personally, I’m not a fan 😕 It smells a bit like “Canadian French” (I have nothing against Canadians!). Moreover, “affiliation” strongly evokes commission-based sales systems. And I don’t think the Discourse team would want to replace the term “Group” in this case. The idea of “owner” currently came from Zogstrip above, following this remark to Gh\_Irina. > [@zogstrip](#): > > I like it 👍 except that we use the term “owner” for “owner”… But I have no objection to changing it, and it’s probably a good thing. “Ownership” over a group, meh, indeed. Personally, I like the idea of “ **admin** ”. It refers to “administrator” and/or “administration” (of the group), and it might be nice to align French and English (which “admin” also allows, by the way), by evolving the English term in parallel as well: [French / English] My groups (member) / My groups (member) My groups (admin) / My groups (admin) On my end, I think it looks great as is. What do others think? ---
**Author:** ![gh\_irina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/838e76/32.png) [@gh\_irina](https://meta.discourse.org/u/gh_irina)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2020, 5:32pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/quality-of-french-translations/135871/24 "2020-01-25T17:32:34Z")
But admin, that’s already a different role on the site. ---
**Author:** ![Mevo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/meta/user_avatar/meta.discourse.org/mevo/32/187732_2.png) [@Mevo](https://meta.discourse.org/u/Mevo)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/quality-of-french-translations/135871/25 "2020-01-25T18:21:10Z")
Oh, that could create confusion with the forum admin… Can’t one simply be a “Group Admin,” which would have nothing to do with the forum admin? I admit I’m not sure. If needed, should we refer to “Group Admin” (English) and “Group Admin” (French)? If I understood correctly, the idea was to move away from the concept of “owner.” (Note: I admit I’m very unfamiliar with “groups” on Discourse at the moment.) ---
**Author:** ![tobiaseigen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/meta/user_avatar/meta.discourse.org/tobiaseigen/32/539204_2.png) [@tobiaseigen](https://meta.discourse.org/u/tobiaseigen)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2020, 9:09pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/quality-of-french-translations/135871/26 "2020-01-25T21:09:08Z")
I think this would be a good idea in English, too. I don’t know where the group owner label came originally. In my community it would make sense to call them group admins or group managers. Often these are staff who are tasked with maintaining group membership. Calling them owners is overstating their role vis a vis the group. ---
**Author:** ![Remah](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/meta/user_avatar/meta.discourse.org/remah/32/70590_2.png) [@Remah](https://meta.discourse.org/u/Remah)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 9:20am UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/quality-of-french-translations/135871/27 "2020-01-26T09:20:30Z")
> [@tobiaseigen](#): > > Calling them owners is overstating their role vis a vis the group. Owner of the group membership settings only. The term isn’t used as a literal equivalent within a real group. ---
**Author:** ![gh\_irina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/838e76/32.png) [@gh\_irina](https://meta.discourse.org/u/gh_irina)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/quality-of-french-translations/135871/29 "2020-05-01T15:03:22Z")
Were you able to make any progress on this? Only my users tell me it is still just “Mes groupes” twice. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![gkln](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/meta/user_avatar/meta.discourse.org/gkln/32/293382_2.png) [@gkln](https://meta.discourse.org/u/gkln)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2020, 7:03am UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/quality-of-french-translations/135871/30 "2020-05-24T07:03:43Z")
Hello everyone, I am currently reviewing a large portion of the validated translations to try and improve them. We are finding errors of several types: - classic spelling mistakes - unnatural translations because they are too close to the English source (regularly due to the absence of an article, for example “Add Member” → “Ajouter membre” instead of “Ajouter un membre” which is more natural) - translations that make no sense in the context where they are used on the site - very often translations that are not consistent with others on the same page or section I have had the opportunity to correct a large number of these errors, and I hope this will be noticeable in the next update. I would like to take advantage of this momentum to follow up on some points in this topic. > [@hellekin](#): > > As you can see, this is exactly the reverse in any other software! A _username_ is usually translated by _nom d’utilisateur_ , whereas the _name_ would be translated as _nom_ . I agree and would make the same proposals. “Pseudo”, besides being a prefix, also feels a bit like the video game world. Any other opinions? > [@hellekin](#): > > Some are gendered, which looks bad when addressed to a non-male person – this is probably a recurrent issue in other gendered languages. This is a complex issue… I have seen one or two translations using inclusive writing, but I am not sure that is the right direction for Discourse. @hellekin Do you have specific examples in mind? > [@gh\_irina](#): > > Were you able to make any progress on this? Only my users tell me it is still just “Mes groupes” twice. Unfortunately, I am not familiar enough with the concept of groups to decide here. What is the final consensus? ---
**Author:** ![hellekin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/meta/user_avatar/meta.discourse.org/hellekin/32/51636_2.png) [@hellekin](https://meta.discourse.org/u/hellekin)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2020, 8:35am UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/quality-of-french-translations/135871/31 "2020-05-24T08:35:22Z")
| Original String | Current Translation | Problem | Suggestion | | --- | --- | --- | --- | | That feature hasn’t been implemented yet, sorry! | Cette fonctionnalité n’a pas encore été implémentée, désolé! | If the administrator is female, the gender is not respected | This feature is not yet available. | | Are you sure you want to delete this bookmark? The reminder will also be deleted. | Êtes-vous sûr de vouloir supprimer ce signet ? Le rappel sera aussi supprimé. | The gender of a female reader is not respected | Would you like to confirm the deletion of this bookmark and its associated reminder? | | … user | … utilisateur | In many cases, it could refer to a female user | No suggestion: the term “utilisateur” is problematic in computing itself; one could use “usager,” but “usagère” would pose a similar issue. | Etc. Sometimes it is possible (and desirable) to prefer an active formulation without seeking a literal translation. In the case of _sorry_, it is more delicate: either erase the trace of politeness or make it sound pathetic… In official messages, the use of “we apologize for the inconvenience caused” is exasperating, while “we kindly ask for your forgiveness” is overly verbose for such a compact _sorry_. Another issue I detected (apologies, kleiny, for my untimely and erroneous edits) concerns the translation of _bookmark_: depending on the environment, terms like “signet,” “favoris,” etc., are used, and the term “épingler” for the verb _to bookmark_ already has another meaning (pinned topics) in Discourse. ---
**Author:** ![gkln](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/meta/user_avatar/meta.discourse.org/gkln/32/293382_2.png) [@gkln](https://meta.discourse.org/u/gkln)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2020, 10:42am UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/quality-of-french-translations/135871/32 "2020-05-24T10:42:24Z")
Thanks for the suggestions! That gives us some ideas. The phrasing “Do you want to confirm” (instead of “Are you sure you want to”) is a good alternative, but it would require updating many sentences. Regarding _bookmark_, the glossary specifies “bookmark” for the noun and “bookmark” for the verb. This is debatable, but it has the merit of being fairly consistently applied in the translations I’ve seen. The recent addition of the “bookmark reminder” concept is also difficult to clarify. ---
**Author:** ![Mevo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/meta/user_avatar/meta.discourse.org/mevo/32/187732_2.png) [@Mevo](https://meta.discourse.org/u/Mevo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2020, 3:42pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/quality-of-french-translations/135871/33 "2020-05-24T15:42:52Z")
> [@hellekin](#): > > |This feature has not yet been implemented, sorry!| > If the administrator is female, the gender is not respected. I don’t quite see where this problem would supposedly arise. But I agree that the suggestion is much better! I fully agree with you regarding the whole issue of “sorry”. > [@gkln](#): > > Regarding _bookmark_, the glossary indicates “bookmark” for the noun and “to bookmark” for the verb. “To bookmark” doesn’t seem that bad, after all. “Bookmark” is relatively good, but “favorite” might seem slightly more “familiar”. “Bookmark” seems to require a second of thought the first time to understand what it refers to. Nothing dramatic. But if I had to choose, I would perhaps lean more towards “favorite” (with the verb “to bookmark” as well). ---
**Author:** ![j.jaffeux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/meta/user_avatar/meta.discourse.org/j.jaffeux/32/60297_2.png) [@j.jaffeux](https://meta.discourse.org/u/j.jaffeux)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2020, 4:03pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/quality-of-french-translations/135871/34 "2020-05-24T16:03:42Z")
Would it bother you if we put “categories” and “tags” here instead? ![Screenshot 2020-05-24 at 18.02.58](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/meta/original/3X/c/f/cf2e1bf5b3362e94ea071186071188b016c777a7.png) I find it far too verbose at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![gkln](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/meta/user_avatar/meta.discourse.org/gkln/32/293382_2.png) [@gkln](https://meta.discourse.org/u/gkln)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2020, 4:30pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/quality-of-french-translations/135871/35 "2020-05-24T16:30:27Z")
> [@Mevo](#): > > “Mettre” doesn’t seem so bad, after all. “Bookmark” is relatively good, but “favorite” might feel slightly more “familiar.” “Bookmark” seems to require about a second of thought the first time to understand what it refers to. Nothing dramatic. But if I had to choose, I would lean slightly more toward “favorite” (also using the verb “add”). “Add to favorites” could give the impression of being some kind of “super like.” I also mentioned the new scheduled reminder feature for bookmarks. For those familiar with browser favorites, the concept of a reminder on a favorite would be somewhat surprising. I also find that “bookmark” isn’t immediately obvious. “Bookmark” (literally “page mark”) could be an alternative, but in reality, both are equally valid. > **[Marque-page (informatique)](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marque-page_(informatique))** > > Pour l’article homonyme, voir Marque-page. > Cet article est une ébauche concernant l’informatique. > En informatique, un marque-page ou favori ou encore signet est une marque qui sert à retrouver une position dans un document ou un site web, ou tout simplent un site favori que l'on range dans un dossier thématique pour le retrouver facilement. Les sites favoris "SNCF" ou "Transiien" seront par exemple rangé dans un dossier thématique Transports". > Les favoris du navigateur Chrome, le plus utilisé... > [@j.jaffeux](#): > > Would it bother you if we used “categories” and “tags” here instead? I think that’s a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Mevo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/meta/user_avatar/meta.discourse.org/mevo/32/187732_2.png) [@Mevo](https://meta.discourse.org/u/Mevo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2020, 4:54pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/quality-of-french-translations/135871/36 "2020-05-24T16:54:20Z")
> [@gkln](#): > > “Bookmark” could be an alternative I find it slightly better than “signet”; it’s more easily understood at first glance, in my opinion. But it’s a bit longer. “To bookmark” is quite nice, with the possible idea of a reminder to return to it later. > [@j.jaffeux](#): > > Would it bother you if we used “categories” and “tags” here instead? I also think that’s a good idea 👍 ---
**Author:** ![hellekin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/meta/user_avatar/meta.discourse.org/hellekin/32/51636_2.png) [@hellekin](https://meta.discourse.org/u/hellekin)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2020, 10:14pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/quality-of-french-translations/135871/37 "2020-05-24T22:14:03Z")
> [@Mevo](#): > > I don’t quite see where this problem would supposedly arise. The French language is structured to distinguish genders, or rather sexes—and notably positions them as markers of power—so it can be shocking to be addressed by a gender different from one’s own. Gender neutrality is a long-standing feminist demand, and the history of the language includes examples of the imposition of one term or another for ideological reasons and to assert male power over women. For example, you can refer to the history of the feminine form of the word “author” (autrice?—which grammar would require, or “auteuse”—which I have seen used sometimes, or “écrivaine”?); one can find comments from well-meaning men that are quite misogynistic if one digs a little deeper. Thus, the effort to translate in a way that neutralizes gender distinctions, especially as non-binary gender identities multiply, seems important in the context of software intended for conversation. > [@Mevo](#): > > “Put a bookmark” is quite nice Why not “mark the page” or, since the concept of a page is not very relevant in Discourse, “mark this contribution” or “mark this topic”; we use a bookmark to _retain_ a place, so another possible translation for “Bookmark” could be: “retain this topic” or “save it”—or more fully: “mark this contribution for later reading.” Long live simplicity! 🤔 @j.jaffeux: I also think that “all the …” can undergo ellipsis without losing the meaning of the text. ---
**Author:** ![Mevo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/meta/user_avatar/meta.discourse.org/mevo/32/187732_2.png) [@Mevo](https://meta.discourse.org/u/Mevo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2020, 10:41pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/quality-of-french-translations/135871/38 "2020-05-24T22:41:14Z")
Very well. I still don’t see how this could possibly apply to > This feature has not yet been implemented, sorry Unless we go into a wild speculation that it would be misogynistic to say a feature hasn’t been implemented when the administrator is female, because that would imply or suggest the feature is unavailable simply because it’s a woman and she presumably hasn’t done her job 😉 Or other atrocities of that kind (which, by the way, we see far too often). Misunderstanding: I wasn’t speaking in general terms, but about this specific case. > [@hellekin](#): > > Why not… Indeed, why not. But even though many things could be “better,” they don’t personally seem to me to cause a clear and immediate misunderstanding. This is because it’s “common” and difficult not to understand or to misunderstand. The concept of a “bookmark” and “to bookmark” seems to require no thought at all. Whereas “mark the page” takes a moment to understand. I am convinced that a certain number of people won’t necessarily understand such a label directly. Or not clearly and immediately. This is just my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![hellekin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/meta/user_avatar/meta.discourse.org/hellekin/32/51636_2.png) [@hellekin](https://meta.discourse.org/u/hellekin)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 2:48pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/quality-of-french-translations/135871/39 "2020-05-26T14:48:16Z")
“Sorry” is, after all, simple: when a woman speaks, she writes _sorry_ with a final _e_. The translation is therefore gendered and assumes the administrator is a man, which is not very welcoming for someone who does not identify with that gender. You see, if we do not question language and the form it takes, we end up accepting things without even noticing. I recommend watching this excerpt from a lecture by Deleuze on the relationship between art and resistance, where he defines communication as “the transmission and propagation of information” and information as “the system of control of order-words.” [https://peertube.social/videos/watch/bc86bf92-a955-4b59-bc86-ddcb385f3977](https://peertube.social/videos/watch/bc86bf92-a955-4b59-bc86-ddcb385f3977) > [@Mevo](#): > > The concept of “bookmark” and of “to bookmark” seems to me to require no reflection. Yet, the idea of transposing this concept onto a screen where the very notion of a page has disappeared does not seem at all obvious: it is indeed an assimilated “order-word” that tells us that, in this context, a “bookmark” functions as a signpost or, rather, signals the functionality of recalling a specific document previously identified. “Marker,” “milestone,” “beacon”: so many concepts that could or might have replaced a “bookmark” or a “favorite.” The use of “bookmark” indicates a semantic shift from the conception of text in book form to hypertext on screen. We also find numerous metaphors drawn from physical objects related to reading applied to the screen: for example, a “tab”; it is also worth noting that the tab predates touchscreens, which have given it a degree of renewed relevance. ---
**Author:** ![Mevo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/meta/user_avatar/meta.discourse.org/mevo/32/187732_2.png) [@Mevo](https://meta.discourse.org/u/Mevo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 4:51pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/quality-of-french-translations/135871/40 "2020-05-26T16:51:34Z")
> [@hellekin](#): > > “Sorry,” yet it’s so simple Phew, yes 😉 It’s indeed simple, but it completely slipped my mind. I didn’t see at all where the issue could lie, and I never once thought it might be about the ending of “sorry.” At the time, I didn’t really interpret it as an expression from a person (“I am sorry”), but rather as a common noun, similar to how one might write “our apologies.” However, I suppose you are quite right (a quick look in the dictionary would indeed confirm that you are right). Still, I don’t really see this “sorry” as a direct expression from the administrator (male or female), but rather as coming from the forum in general. Should it then be put in the feminine form just because the site is administered by a woman? I’m not sure. What is certain is that I didn’t hesitate for a moment with a “sorry” without a final “e,” even knowing it referred to a female administrator. I might have hesitated slightly if there had been one (but I would have quickly understood the reason). Interesting, nonetheless, this little episode regarding this “sorry.” I watched (listened, mostly) to your video and found it absolutely horrible (this is my personal opinion only). 15 minutes of my life lost forever 😉 The kind of debate over these masculine (or “generic”) words also used for women is somewhat endless. It depends on the perspective from which one approaches it. On one side, an “equality” is claimed and supposedly desired; on the other, differentiation is needed… yes, but because the word in question is originally masculine, etc. In short. > [@hellekin](#): > > “Reference,” “milestone,” “marker”: so many concepts that could or might have replaced a “bookmark” I’m not entirely sure, but I feel like I’m encountering something I’ve noticed with other interlocutors on other forums: You seem to focus a lot on the _words_. On the contrary, I consider the _idea_ to be what matters most. Here, the idea you wish to convey so that it is correctly understood by the greatest number with the “least effort,” if you will. So yes, I understand well what you’re saying, including the somewhat illogical aspect of reusing established words to apply them to new contexts, or the fact that there might be more “accurate” words and all the points you raise. But for me, effectiveness takes priority, and these considerations come second (even though I am usually very strict about vocabulary accuracy, but for the sake of clear understanding between interlocutors and to avoid ambiguities, especially in technical fields with their own specific terminology). This makes me realize that I would be “in favor” of continuing a “bad usage” in terms of vocabulary, simply because it started and people understand it well. This indeed only perpetuates and reinforces “bad usages” of words. You may be right in wanting to impose new, more “correct” usages, even if the beginning isn’t necessarily obvious (until it becomes established). ---
**Author:** ![zogstrip](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/meta/user_avatar/meta.discourse.org/zogstrip/32/512781_2.png) [@zogstrip](https://meta.discourse.org/u/zogstrip)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 2:29pm UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/quality-of-french-translations/135871/41 "2020-05-28T14:29:55Z")
> [@Mevo](#): > > I still don’t really see that “sorry” as the direct expression of the administrator, but rather as coming from the forum in general. Completely agree. In this sentence, the “sorry” comes from the software, not from the admin. > [@j.jaffeux](#): > > Would it bother you if we put “categories” and “tags” here instead? It bothers me to see so many “all the” 🙈 [Previous page](https://meta.discourse.org/t/quality-of-french-translations/135871.md?page=1) [Next page](https://meta.discourse.org/t/quality-of-french-translations/135871.md?page=3)