# Should an edit to any wiki post bump the entire topic?
**URL:** https://meta.discourse.org/t/should-an-edit-to-any-wiki-post-bump-the-entire-topic/104228
**Category:** Feature
**Created:** [13.Декабрь.2018 10:27:10 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/should-an-edit-to-any-wiki-post-bump-the-entire-topic/104228 "2018-12-13T10:27:10Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@aschrijver](https://meta.discourse.org/u/aschrijver)
#### Post date: [13.Декабрь.2018 10:27:10 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/should-an-edit-to-any-wiki-post-bump-the-entire-topic/104228/1 "2018-12-13T10:27:10Z")
Maybe this has been discussed before, but I just noticed that an Edit to a wiki post does not boost the topic to the top of the topic list similar to how a regular edit does this, so the edit can easily go by unnoticed.
**Edit** : Proposal is to have wiki edits create an auto-entry “User X edited Revision Y to Wiki post Z” to the topic discussion similar to ‘Deleted post …’, ‘Split topic …’ entries, that causes the topic to be bumped. If this new feature is configurable, then nothing changes to the default behaviour.
**Edit 2** : IMHO:
### Unintuitive
- **Simulate regular wiki page** : Create a special locked topic with the wiki post last in the thread (and don’t forget to lock or moderation is needed if someone comments)
- Create separate topic and bi-directional cross-reference if wiki posts needs discussion
- **Simulate wiki + comments page** : Create wiki(s) in a normal topic, with the explicit rule that any wiki edit _must_ be followed by a comment to attract attention to the new revision
### Intuitive
- **Create wiki(s) in any topic without thinking**: Just use ‘Make wiki post…’ button without additional action, topic behavior stays the same. New revisions create an entry that causes the topic to be bumped
- (Okay, a bit annoying may be that the entry may cause the viewport to jump to the end of the page)
Additionally you could:
- Make this behaviour configurable, and not the default (so nothing changes for people who are happy now)
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### Author:  [@dax](https://meta.discourse.org/u/dax)
#### Post date: [13.Декабрь.2018 11:13:53 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/should-an-edit-to-any-wiki-post-bump-the-entire-topic/104228/2 "2018-12-13T11:13:53Z")
> [@Editing and creating wiki posts](https://meta.discourse.org/t/editing-and-creating-wiki-posts/30801/34):
>
> Maybe this has been discussed before
You will find many topics related. See this one
> [@Edits to Wikis with Replies Should Cause Timestamp Change / Post Shown as Updated](https://meta.discourse.org/t/edits-to-wikis-with-replies-should-cause-timestamp-change-post-shown-as-updated/52700):
>
> Note I use the terms topic / post & Wiki interchangeably throughout the post, all mentions of topics / posts are referring to Wikis. At the moment, edits to Wikis which don’t have replies cause the topic’s timestamp to be updated & the topic to be bumped to the top of the New / Updated posts list. But once a user has replied to the topic, only edits to that last reply will cause the topic’s timestamp etc. to update. I need users who have never interacted with the post before to be alerted of …
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### Author:  [@aschrijver](https://meta.discourse.org/u/aschrijver)
#### Post date: [13.Декабрь.2018 11:25:52 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/should-an-edit-to-any-wiki-post-bump-the-entire-topic/104228/3 "2018-12-13T11:25:52Z")
Am I correct in assuming that to have an update in a wiki bump the topic to the top of the list (as discussed [here](https://meta.discourse.org/t/edits-to-wikis-with-replies-should-cause-timestamp-change-post-shown-as-updated/52700)), you _have_ to disallow replies (because after 1st reply a wiki update will no longer bump the topic). What if you have an _and/or_ situation? Either you update the wiki, or add an additional comment.. and always the topic will bump to the top of the list.
**Edit** : Correction. Changed ‘either/or’ to ‘and/or’.
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### Author:  [@dax](https://meta.discourse.org/u/dax)
#### Post date: [13.Декабрь.2018 11:58:50 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/should-an-edit-to-any-wiki-post-bump-the-entire-topic/104228/4 "2018-12-13T11:58:50Z")
You can always change the topic timestamp in case.
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### Author:  [@aschrijver](https://meta.discourse.org/u/aschrijver)
#### Post date: [13.Декабрь.2018 12:11:57 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/should-an-edit-to-any-wiki-post-bump-the-entire-topic/104228/5 "2018-12-13T12:11:57Z")
Thank you! That is an option. Though it is not intuitive for regular members, and easily forgotten.
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### Author:  [@codinghorror](https://meta.discourse.org/u/codinghorror)
#### Post date: [13.Декабрь.2018 22:41:30 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/should-an-edit-to-any-wiki-post-bump-the-entire-topic/104228/6 "2018-12-13T22:41:30Z")
Incorrect, it follows the same rules. Any edit to the last post in a topic will bump it.
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### Author:  [@aschrijver](https://meta.discourse.org/u/aschrijver)
#### Post date: [13.Декабрь.2018 23:10:40 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/should-an-edit-to-any-wiki-post-bump-the-entire-topic/104228/7 "2018-12-13T23:10:40Z")
Yes, but I am talking about wiki edits that are not the last posts in the topic.
Edit: In prior comment should have said and/or
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### Author:  [@codinghorror](https://meta.discourse.org/u/codinghorror)
#### Post date: [13.Декабрь.2018 23:11:47 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/should-an-edit-to-any-wiki-post-bump-the-entire-topic/104228/8 "2018-12-13T23:11:47Z")
Why would that bump a topic? The rule has been the same since 2013: new replies bump a topic, or edits to the last (most recent) reply.
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### Author:  [@aschrijver](https://meta.discourse.org/u/aschrijver)
#### Post date: [13.Декабрь.2018 23:13:35 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/should-an-edit-to-any-wiki-post-bump-the-entire-topic/104228/9 "2018-12-13T23:13:35Z")
Because the wiki edit can be very substantial and should attract attention. Be noticable.
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### Author:  [@codinghorror](https://meta.discourse.org/u/codinghorror)
#### Post date: [13.Декабрь.2018 23:16:08 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/should-an-edit-to-any-wiki-post-bump-the-entire-topic/104228/10 "2018-12-13T23:16:08Z")
If that is the case, you should enforce the fact that the wiki post is always the last post in the topic. Close the topic so nobody can reply to it. Now the first post is also always the last post. Problem solved.
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### Author:  [@aschrijver](https://meta.discourse.org/u/aschrijver)
#### Post date: [13.Декабрь.2018 23:23:00 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/should-an-edit-to-any-wiki-post-bump-the-entire-topic/104228/11 "2018-12-13T23:23:00Z")
But I could have a wiki post like this: “This is a placeholder for [Doc XYZ]” and then ask everyone to comment/discuss what are essential subjects for the doc to be added. Or someone might comment “I want to make XYZ large change, but before I do, is that alright?”. A wiki post followed by normal posts is like a blog article with a comments thread in that regard (except that it can change substantionally).
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### Author:  [@codinghorror](https://meta.discourse.org/u/codinghorror)
#### Post date: [13.Декабрь.2018 23:26:22 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/should-an-edit-to-any-wiki-post-bump-the-entire-topic/104228/12 "2018-12-13T23:26:22Z")
Have your discussion in a parallel topic that links to the wiki topic.
If you want edit = bump as a global rule for the topic, then you must enforce the fact that the wiki post is always the last post in the topic. You can do this by creating the topic and closing it, thus preventing new replies.
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### Author:  [@aschrijver](https://meta.discourse.org/u/aschrijver)
#### Post date: [13.Декабрь.2018 23:30:46 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/should-an-edit-to-any-wiki-post-bump-the-entire-topic/104228/13 "2018-12-13T23:30:46Z")
Yes, this is possible, of course, but the extra topic is not really needed or relevant to the rest of the topic list (pollutes the list). And it is unwieldy. A mod might know this whole procedure (create 2 topics, cross-link, create wiki post, lock wiki topic), but other users.. it is a lot to ask in terms of discipline.
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### Author:  [@codinghorror](https://meta.discourse.org/u/codinghorror)
#### Post date: [14.Декабрь.2018 00:21:05 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/should-an-edit-to-any-wiki-post-bump-the-entire-topic/104228/14 "2018-12-14T00:21:05Z")
> [@aschrijver](#):
>
> it is a lot to ask in terms of discipline.
It really isn’t; there are a variety of tasks where multiple topics are needed to achieve the goal. Disconnecting “random meta discussion” and “actual wiki page” is exactly how Wikipedia works, for example. Feel free to look it up if you don’t believe me.
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### Author:  [@aschrijver](https://meta.discourse.org/u/aschrijver)
#### Post date: [14.Декабрь.2018 08:03:14 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/should-an-edit-to-any-wiki-post-bump-the-entire-topic/104228/15 "2018-12-14T08:03:14Z")
Oh, I believe you. I have edited wiki articles before. But wikipedia is not forum software, and there are significant differences:
- Wiki pages and discussion Talk are neatly separated and normal users are not confronted with ongoing discussions when they navigate to the landing page (no ‘topic pollution’)
- Wikpedia is encyclopedia software, and all content needs to be fact-checked, and thus a way more formal workflow is a requirement
- Therefore it takes time to become a good editor, and a lot of rules / etiquette to consider. Also, and as a result (I don’t know numbers) the ratio readers vs. editors, has way more readers, I suspect
On our forum we have a bunch of use cases where wiki posts + regular posts are useful, but only if wiki edits are noticable:
Basic requirement:
- Our forum landing page is displaying of Humane Technology discussion topics, and not interspersed with a lot of meta / ‘ongoing work’ topics
Wiki use cases:
1. We have an Awareness Program, where we prepare theme and campaign Markdown documents
2. We have topics such as “List of cognitive biases that apply to social media” that start with a wiki post that gives an overview, followed by discussions on them
3. We have discussions where someone may post “I am doing research on this subject, and have collected this list of resources. I made it a wiki post, and please add your entries that I may have missed”
* * *
Long story, but I think the feature request that solves the issue I have is not that high impact, and makes sense:
- If you delete or split a topic an entry is made to the topic thread “Deleted post …” and “Split topic …”, which causes a bump of the topic AFAIK
- You can do the same with a wiki post edit: “User `@janedoe` created a new revision of wiki post 1”
-Whether or not these entries are created could be configurable at wiki level, and default behaviour can be specified at Settings admin.
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### Author:  [@codinghorror](https://meta.discourse.org/u/codinghorror)
#### Post date: [14.Декабрь.2018 08:40:37 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/should-an-edit-to-any-wiki-post-bump-the-entire-topic/104228/16 "2018-12-14T08:40:37Z")
> [@aschrijver](#):
>
> Of course the workaround here could be that the editor adds and additional post “I added bias XYZ to the wiki post”
Indeed, very simple and logical.
If you want this enforced by law, create a category for strict wikis, and mark them all auto-close in the category settings, so they can only ever have a single post by definition. Then you’d have the exact behavior you want.
Linking groups of topics together is completely normal and expected. Jamming a bunch of stuff into a single topic is rarely the way to go.
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### Author:  [@aschrijver](https://meta.discourse.org/u/aschrijver)
#### Post date: [14.Декабрь.2018 09:08:55 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/should-an-edit-to-any-wiki-post-bump-the-entire-topic/104228/17 "2018-12-14T09:08:55Z")
> [@codinghorror](#):
>
> Indeed, very simple and logical.
Except that you have to explain that to every user: “Don’t forget to create a post after your wiki edit, or no one will see the edit you made”.
With auto-closed wikis for every N campaigns we’d have 2N topics, and have to explain every user how to set that up properly.
This does not address use case 3).
Having auto-entries like “User X Edited wiki Y” seems just as simple and logical to me.
* * *
You are very used to how wikis have worked for all these years, so this all look to be the logical things to do. But it is not so obvious and easy UX-wise as the ‘Make wiki post…’ makes it seem to be.
> [@codinghorror](#):
>
> Jamming a bunch of stuff into a single topic is rarely the way to go.
The discourse forum does this a lot, though, where you have e.g. _plugin_ topics, where the first post is the documentation, followed by (very) long discussions. Only in your case it is only admins that edit the first posts, and it needs not be a wiki.
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### Author:  [@codinghorror](https://meta.discourse.org/u/codinghorror)
#### Post date: [14.Декабрь.2018 09:42:58 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/should-an-edit-to-any-wiki-post-bump-the-entire-topic/104228/18 "2018-12-14T09:42:58Z")
> [@aschrijver](#):
>
> Except that you have to explain that to every user: “Don’t forget to create a post after your wiki edit, or no one will see the edit you made”.
Why would there be any other expectation? If, right now, you go back and edit the second post you made in this topic — which you easily could — why would you expect anyone to be notified of that?
There is no “please notify a bunch of people that I just made an edit to an old post” provision anywhere in Discourse, at any time. Or any other discussion software that I can think of.
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### Author:  [@aschrijver](https://meta.discourse.org/u/aschrijver)
#### Post date: [14.Декабрь.2018 09:45:09 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/should-an-edit-to-any-wiki-post-bump-the-entire-topic/104228/19 "2018-12-14T09:45:09Z")
But it is not just an old post. It is a wiki post, and marked as Wiki, because it has longer-lasting importance.
And in a wiki post you give others editing rights to add more important information to it over time.
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### Author:  [@Remah](https://meta.discourse.org/u/Remah)
#### Post date: [14.Декабрь.2018 10:08:49 UTC](https://meta.discourse.org/t/should-an-edit-to-any-wiki-post-bump-the-entire-topic/104228/20 "2018-12-14T10:08:49Z")
> [@aschrijver](#):
>
> It is a wiki post, and marked as Wiki, because it has longer-lasting importance.
I think that you are making an incorrect assumption about wiki posts being more important. I haven’t seen anything from the Discourse team that suggests wiki posts are any more important than any other post. Maybe you are attributing your own ideas about what a wiki post should be?
As far as I remember, the differentiating feature of a wiki post has only ever been that it can be edited by more than one user. I also checked several topics on wiki posts and didn’t find any attribution of greater importance for wiki posts, e.g. in the following topics:
> [@Editing and creating wiki posts](https://meta.discourse.org/t/what-is-a-wiki-post/30801):
>
> bookmark This guide explains how to create and edit wiki posts, including their purpose, permissions, and best practices. person_raising_hand Required user level: All users (with specific permissions based on group membership) Wiki posts in Discourse are special types of posts that can be edited by multiple users which allows for collaborative editing and knowledge sharing within a community. They are particularly useful for documentation, FAQs, and other content that benefits from commu…
> [@Configuring wiki settings](https://meta.discourse.org/t/how-to-create-a-wiki-post/30802):
>
> bookmark This guide explains how to configure wiki settings to meet your community’s needs, including how to determine who can create and edit wiki posts. person_raising_hand Required user level: Administrator What is a wiki post? Configure who can edit a wiki post Users can edit wiki posts when they meet the following requirements: The user must belong to at least one of the edit wiki post allowed groups (This site setting is configured to trust\_level\_1 by default). The user must b…
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