Duplicate/Should Have Searched flags

For forums with feature request / bug report categories, it’s not uncommon for duplicate bug reports / feature requests to be filed. For all forums, there’s the issue of people not liking to use the search feature and immediately jump to posting whatever is on their mind. The forum I’m part does have feature requests / bug reports, and while we don’t use Discourse (yet), both the existing forum software and Discourse do not provide good ways for dealing with both duplicates and people who neglect to use the search feature (yes I’m aware Discourse suggests similar posts when you’re drafting your own, but more on that later).

With duplicate reports/requests, I’ve noticed that even when someone points out that it’s a duplicate feature request, no matter how nice or mean they word it, and regardless if it’s the first reply on the topic or not, discussion still continues. Forum members will prefer to discuss features / bugs on the most recent topic, probably because one or all of the following:

  • it feels wrong for them to resurrect a topic that hasn’t been posted on in so long
  • they want to respond to someone’s suggestion/outlook but it’s only on the new topic and not the old one
  • they didn’t see the “this is a duplicate topic” post and continue leaving feedback on the topic

It’s really difficult to manually moderate that kind of stuff and merge topics so often – I really like the way Discourse headed with the automatic flagging system that took the workload off the moderators’ backs, and duplicate post flagging could do some good.

As for posting topics before using the search feature, it becomes a problem because:

  • People make a goof every now and then and forget to use the search feature, but similar to how even though birthdays are rare, only taking 0.27% (a single day) of the entire year, so many people exist on Earth that there are countless birthdays per day, because of the volume of members on the forum it’s not uncommon to see posts that could have been answered by searching because there are such a large amount of people tripping up occasionally.

  • Since there isn’t a “should have searched” flag to slowly eat away at their trust level and boot them out if and when they continue to ignore the search feature because they don’t feel like using it, manual moderation is the only way to get rid of these people. “Oh you should have used the search” isn’t exactly “this guy should be removed” material, so this results in these people never being removed and they continue to poison the forum. This manual moderation babysitting is also the exact opposite direction of the one Discourse is going in the event that moderators actively work to oust these types of people.

  • Just linking to topics where the question has already been answered does not motivate people to use the search feature in the future (this comes from personal experience – they don’t realize they’re inconveniencing others when they could have just searched it themselves), telling them “please use the search feature” (either on their topic or in a PM) comes off as rude, and since you’re calling them out they get super defensive about it or they just don’t care that they’re inconveniencing other people and in either case telling them doesn’t work.

Looking back at “Your topic is similar to”,

forum members may forget that it exists after a certain period of time, ignore it and not care about it, or close it because it gets in the way. It also may not provide perfect matches to similar topics and posters would assume there was no similar topic even though they would have found it through the search feature. Additionally, we’ve had problems with topics where they start repeating themselves ever couple of pages – people are lazy and don’t want to read the whole topic before posting so they end up asking the same questions over and over and over. We can’t start booting people left and right for this because so many people do it, and just telling them not to doesn’t stop them from doing that in the future. I’d also like to point out that StackExchange has the “your topic is similar to” notification as well, but the community can still flag topics as duplicates – it’s because the “your topic is similar to”, while helpful in solving the problem, does not solve the problem completely.

Getting a PM that says your post/topic has been hidden because it was flagged by the community and knowing that if you continue that behavior you will eventually get booted from the community provides excellent motivation to improve behavior, and I’m sure the Discourse team knows that very well. It would be amazing if there were flags for duplicate posts / should have used the search feature or read the topic in general so duplicate posts and people who are too quick to post manageable, and preventing moderators from having to babysit the forum with manual moderation every time this occurs. When flagged for being a duplicate topic, it should automatically either be merged with the original topic or closed and linked to the original topic (merging it directly might result in weird results). When flagged for not using the search feature / reading the topic, the post should be hidden automatically like if it were spam and the poster notified in their inbox that it had already been answered (with links people provided to the post(s) that had answered their question).

「いいね!」 2

This is a lot of words to process. What is your proposal? Can you post a visual mockup of how it would work?

「いいね!」 1

My TLDR, he is asking for a new flag type.

Honestly I do not think its such a big deal to reply with a comment and flag for moderation.

「いいね!」 1

Thank you for the quick responses! You are correct in your summarization of the original post (actually two flag types though). The forum software I use currently requires manual moderation of duplicate threads / posts. I am speaking through personal experience that manual moderation does not work.

Asking things that have already been answered on the same thread seems innocent enough that forum moderators won’t delete them (they’d have to micromanage the forum to do that even if they opted to, so they wouldn’t want to bother with it), and then a couple of pages later it’s grown out of control and further pages are almost exact duplicates of previous pages. This is why I ask for an automatic way to deal with people who don’t read threads before posting – threads that repeat themselves are not useful for feedback, and when you get to the point where people are saying the same thing repeatedly the forum staff bail out since it’s not worth the effort to sift through duplicate posts (again, coming from personal experience). After the thread is abandoned by the forum staff, further feedback by forum members is for naught. Flags were created so the moderators wouldn’t have to get involved in every little problem – this seems like it fits into exactly what flags were created for.

As for the duplicates, ask yourself why they are a problem. It separates discussion on the same topic into multiple threads, making it difficult and more time consuming for developers to gather feedback. In the case of the forum I’m a part of, the developers and staff members are the same, so with reporting duplicates and having the staff take care of it, does that really help? Instead of spending time sifting through duplicate threads, they’re now manually having to micromanage the forums. Manual reports sadly do not solve the problem. This is why I am requesting a flag to mark posts as duplicates.

tl;dr duplicate flag and “use search / read thread” (for lack of a better name) flags

Just for reference, I’m assuming the “Something Else” under flagging does not automatically hide posts and that moderators have to manually jump in if a post is flagged for something else. Is this a correct assumption? As the forum I used hasn’t switched to Discourse yet, all I have to go on is this topic on flags, and codinghorror mentions:

Since “something else” can be an infinite number of reasons, I thought filing a flag under “something else” did not apply to this since three different flags could be for completely different things. If 3 “something else” flags automatically hides posts, then there is no need for two new flags – users can still help keep the community clean with something else without having to wait for moderators to manually clean up posts.

The modal currently has 5 options
3 Flags in the proper sense

  • Off-topic
  • Inappropriate
  • Spam

and 2 Messages

  • to the poster
  • to Moderators (the “something else”)

The Messages do not “Flag” nor count as Flags against the member

The “something else” can be a lot of things, including
The post needs MarkDown formatting
The member didn’t Edit a prior post but made another, identical but with additional text
The replies have become redundant and the topic should probably be closed
The member had poor luck in a category and instead of asking for the topic to be moved started another cross-post in a different category

I may be a “softie” but IMHO though they do cause more work for Moderators they are for the most part not “offenses” unless and until a member intentionally continues the practice.

I’d say that for our Moderators the most common issue is posts needing MarkDown formatting. (well, that and asking “please provide more information”)

「いいね!」 2

Yes. (Just in case that wasn’t clear from @Mittineague’s explanation of the options.)

It’s a useful option, because it lets the member flagging explain what they think is wrong, but leaves it to mods to deal with. So duplicate topics, “should be merged with …”, “should be split”, “should be moved to…” are all suitable here.

https://community.signalusers.org/ では、1 日に約 15 件の重複投稿が発生しています。フォーラムの利用者がトピックや投稿を重複としてフラグ付けし、それが重複しているトピックへの URL を提供できるようにすると、非常に役立つでしょう。モデレーターが承認した場合の標準的な対応は、そのトピックを非表示にし、ロックし、以下の投稿を追加することです。「このトピックは [他のフォーラムトピックへのリンク] の重複であるため、閉鎖されました。」

それはすでに可能だったはずです。

  • フラグボタンを選択
  • 「その他」フラグタイプを選択
  • 「重複:」と入力
  • URL を貼り付け
「いいね!」 1

また、これがフラグ付けのデフォルト理由として採用された場合、このソフトウェアを利用したいコミュニティは、重複トピックをガイドラインとして禁止することを余儀なくされてしまいます。重複トピックは多くの場面で一般的に好ましくないとされていますが、ごく一部のコミュニティではそうではない場合もあります。管理者が独自の事前定義されたフラグ理由を追加できるようにすることに賛成ですが、おそらくすでにそのようなリクエストは存在するでしょう。ただし、「その他」オプションで十分機能する場合がほとんどです。

「いいね!」 2

私が求めているのは、単にフラグ機能だけでなく、重複を処理するためにモデレーターが取れるアクションです。「フラグに同意」するオプションに続き、以下の機能があればと思います。

  1. トピックを非表示にする
  2. トピックをロックする
  3. システム投稿として「このトピックは [url] の重複です」と投稿する

これにより、検索時に重複トピックが提案されるのを防ぎ、このスレッドでの議論を継続するのを阻止し、まだこのトピックを訪れる人全員に、なぜロックされ非表示になったのか、そして元のトピックがどこにあるのかを投稿で示すことができます。

現在、私たちはすべての重複トピックに対してこれらの手順を手動で行っていますが、非常に時間がかかります。

私が求めているものはフラグそのものではなく、「[url] として重複をクローズする」というアクションです。

はい、しかし Stack Overflow を設立した者として言わせていただくと、あなたが求めていることは、想像を絶するほど、はるかに、そして はるかに 困難です。

人々が 本当に 求めているのは、「これが重複であることを自動的に検出し、ユーザーのために修正する」という魔法のようなボタンですが、それを実装するのは驚くほど困難です。基本的に、投稿前に検索する努力をしようとしない、あるいはできない人々が無秩序にタイプし続ける無限の軍勢を打ち負かすことは決してできません。できることといえば、彼らが投稿することを極めて困難にし、結果として 彼らに 最初から行うべき検索を 強制 することだけです。

「いいね!」 1

しかし、今では私がすでにそのような自動化機能を求めていると言っているのですね。Stack Overflow のように数百万人の訪問者を処理する必要はありません。私たちは1日に約30件の新しいトピックを扱っており、その一部は重複しています。人間のレビューや、ちょっとした議論の余地は十分にあります。私が求めているのは、「同意」ボタンを押した後、「非表示」ボタンを押して、再びトピックを見つけ、「ロック」ボタンを押してから、「これは [URL を貼り付け] の重複です」という投稿を書く、という一連の動作を繰り返す必要をなくすことです。

フラグが「重複」であり、フラグを立てた人が URL を提出することを求めているなら、その URL はモデレーターにとってすぐに利用可能であり、モデレーターは同意または不同意を判断するだけで済みます。同意した場合、標準的なアクションとしてロック、非表示、そして「これは [URL] の重複です」という自動返信を投稿することができ、モデレーターはレビューキューから離れる必要がなくなります。

これは完全な自動化システムというわけではなく、すでに存在する自動化を少しだけ強化したものに過ぎません。

ユーザーとの経験から言うと、ユーザーはあなたが求めることは何も行わず、画面に表示されたテキストも読まない傾向があります。

その制限を踏まえると、モデレーター向けのツールは改善の余地があります。なぜなら、モデレーターは一般的にあなたが求めることを行い、画面に表示された内容も読むからです。したがって、そちらに焦点を当てるべきかもしれません。

「いいね!」 1

素晴らしいですね。余談ですが、個別のフラグの提案は、フラグを立てたユーザーに元のトピックの URL を提供してもらうことを促すためだけです。私がモデレートしているフォーラムでは、ユーザーが「[url] の重複」という説明で他のものをフラグ立てることがよくあります。その URL を取得し、システムが「確かにこれはその URL の重複です」という公式なステートメントを投稿できれば理想的です。そのため、入力を必要な URL のみにするために、個別の「重複」フラグを提案しました。

モデレータービューでは、参照されている(おそらく元の)トピックのタイトルと日付が表示されると便利です。

また、レビューキューを「重複」フラグの種類でフィルタリングできると大変助かります。

もちろんです。もし、ここでモデレーターのツールを改善するために何ができるかに焦点を当てた大まかなモックアップを提供していただければ、非常に助かります。

「いいね!」 1