Learning music (off-topic but interesting)

Your post prompted me to ask YOU a question:

What is the easiest way to learn music? - my gut feel is that Standard Notation makes the process unnecessarily difficult . .

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This is a very off-topic subject, but here it goes anyway. If any admin feels like this should be sent to another topic, please do it.

When you say ā€œStandard Notationā€ you mean writing music in music sheets? I will assume that that’s what you mean:

I started playing with my first keyboard back when I was 8 or so (1987-ish). I was just exploring, but I would spend hours playing with it. Then in 1991 I got my first drum kit and that was when I actually started making my own songs with my first band. I never learned music theory, not until 2016. I knew the basics, but now really what a Gm7 chord was, for example, which is a pretty basic concept. And when I started learning theory, a whole new door opened for me.

Up until that moment I was able to make music that people liked, I had some success in Portugal, my country, so it was never a matter of knowing theory or not, writing music sheets or not. It was about emotions and knowing what sounds good and what doesn’t. Learning theory just gave me another tool that allows me know to go different paths when I want to, unlock endless loops, etc.

Music to me is about emotions, not about just that chord X goes well with chord Y, because it’s mathematical compatible, which sometimes that’s what happens when you start learning music theory as the first method of learning. I believe that learning music, depending on your goals, of course, should always be with you spending years just messing with an instrument and seeing what feels good. You eventually end up learning that some things never sound right, even if you don’t know why. And to be honest, that’s the best approach, because most listeners don’t care about the ā€œwhyā€ anyway. They either like the song or they don’t.

A lot of musicians, like Jacob Collier, for example, never clicked for me. His music may be very intricate and ā€œwell createdā€ when it comes to the theory and all that, but it doesn’t resonate with me emotionally. That’s probably the issue I see with knowing too much theory. You start making things because you can and not because you you should.

When you make things because you can, you are thinking about yourself. When you make things because you should, then you are thinking about the song, which to me, is the most valuable thing. I want the best for the song, and the song will tell me constantly ā€œthis is too much, I don’t need this right nowā€.

So, back to your question: I don’t know if my suggestion of messing with an instrument for years is the ā€œeasiestā€ way, but it’s definitely the one I got more pleasure from and I’m grateful for that path. Learning music theory is easier and faster, it’s like a math equation, but it can lock you inside a cage right away, which can be a trap (no pun intended).

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Yes, the ā€œstandardā€ that has been around for a few hundred years - here is my ā€œalternativeā€ notation (there are 1000s of ANs) just for guitar:

http://philiprhoades.org/music/gnote2_1.pdf

I split this out because it is so off-topic, but in the spirit of encouraging real human convos I am happy to let it play out. :slight_smile:

My own music experience is very different to Tiago’s—almost the opposite! I played clarinet most of my childhood but I gave it away in favour of the drums, which I still play. I am useless at composing my own music and I’m not great at playing by ear, but I can read music well and rely on it heavily. I suspect it has something to do with classical training and playing in orchestras.

If you’re a dev, learning to read music should be a breeze.

Edit: I looked at your notation—sadly I don’t think drum music would fit on 3 stave lines. It rarely fits on 5. I think the number of lines required is quite different depending on the instrument.

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Music is so vast that it is really infinite. Its roots are from the first and basic human interactions; everything has its own rhythm. It is said that slaves in Africa invented the first rhythms to communicate with one another while they were in captivity.

I think that everyone can play music with or without pre-defined rules. Classical music is beautiful and it’s based on specific structures like tango, samba, jazz, blues or bachata.

But then we listen to a sitar with no frets on it, or a hand drum with a system to play based on harmonics, and understand there were no rules at all, just conventions to follow (or not).

Mystics (Sufis, Persians, Buddhists) play focusing on trance, rhythm, and tonal center or bending. Free form is their sacred method to play. Note that play here is not only performative but also joy.

Classical music excluded microtones and free rhythm, but later composers broke their own rules to prove they were a cage, not a completeness or culmination. So classic music gets expanded.

I always put my attention on street musicians, and I found a really deep connection with what they were playing. There’s a very well-known group that toured the world performing mainstream songs, but there’s so much more to discover by taking the time to explore streets and landscapes and listen to it.

Specifically replying to the OP from my own experience: musical expression comes from creativity, and creativity comes from intuition, sentiment, and intention. Music theory can give a very good shape to all of this, but it can also obscure it if the intellectual mind tries to go beyond the feelings.

I mean, love cannot be understood but lived; the same applies to music. I think a lot of us find in music our most genuine connection to wholeness, sometimes called the supreme being or god.

I really appreciate (a lot) the dedication of music theorists, and they usually touch my soul with their compositions. Meanwhile, I have a few years of shamanic apprenticeship, and I discovered that I can play my lakota-type drum (coming from the Amazon rainforest) with really no theory at all.

The same applies to my 15 years as a house/techno DJ. I’m an autodidact, but I used to be very analytical in my childhood. I learned almost everything by reading, but my relationship with music is simply different and ā€˜embodied,’ if that word fits.

I experienced a couple of ā€˜aha’ moments when I understood the power of vibration as a very clear expression of ā€˜the One’. I think that music it’s kind of magic and it’s on our DNA.

Everyone can play music and should really do it if feels the call.

I play a bit of jazz piano and sing.

Classical notation is limiting but it’s definitely valuable to sight read.

The biggest problem with it though is that it removes the emphasis from listening.

Learning music by ear is far more powerful but takes a lot longer and is somewhat magical.

I remember one guy in one of my uni bands was able to sing in harmony almost instantly. That’s a skill built from listening not looking at notation.

Guitarists seem to have a better approach to learning music than pianists. I think it’s because they get to playing songs sooner and focus on song structure and harmony whilst pianists obsess over complex pieces.

But to cut to the chase:

  • Play what inspires you (just as you might write a computer program to achieve a goal)
  • Record yourself in single takes over and over until you nail it.
  • Play with a group so you are forced to be good

I often play in church and I reharmonise some tunes to make it more modern. Prep for Sunday is talent building because you can’t fake it.

Bach wrote most of his music for Church on Sunday. That weekly goal made him. The feedback loop helped develop his genius and gave us his amazing repertoire.

Equally bands that just rehearse don’t get better as fast as those that actually gig regularly.

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Wow, some kind of ice-breaking topic on meta, something I thought I’d never see :face_with_tongue:

Learning music has always been a great frustration of mine.

I ā€œlearnedā€ piano for 3 years when I was a teen. I was not very diligent, but had a great teacher. Funny, rich musical background.

I remembered absolutely nothing about piano. Many years later, I tried learn to play again, by myself. I’ve spent literally hundreds of hours botching my learning, also doing transcripts of songs I liked using my ears and NoteEdit (or a similare software) and, again, remembered absolutely nothing.

I tried to learn for a fourth or fifth time just a couple months ago, with an app this time (Simply Piano).

Each time my fingers touch a piano keyboard, it’s like I’m entering in an ocean of emptiness. It’s hard to believe that with so much time spent, so many hours reading sheets, I can’t even read a sheet, even a single note. I have to manually count the notes on the sheet to get that this one is a G, this one a F and so on.

I yearn to learn piano. I absolutely love the sound and the instrument definitely resonates with me. Perhaps I’m wrong but I strongly believe my brain’s wiring isn’t really compatible with music learning.

I also tried to learn guitar for months, with the same results.

Many people say that anyone can learn any skill with patience and perseverance. I’m not really sure I agree with that.
Even if I won’t draw anymore, I know a bit about drawing. I’ve known many people who draw badly. They have poured several, or even decates into this activity, but their technical skills (or even inspiration, sujects, whatever) remain poor and it seems they can’t progress anymore. But if they are happy with what they do, good for them. Some of them are definitely happy with how things come and what they can do, my opinion doesn’t matter the slightless.

What is sure is that I wouldn’t be happy being such technically limited in drawing because it would hinders my projects and creativity, and I believe the same with instruments.

It’s hard to describe what happens in my head when I try to learn, or play.

It feels like trying to use a shape sorter,


But every wooden piece has an undefined shape, and I can never tell which piece belongs in which hole.

Accurate depiction of me in front of a piano:
Meonly: Confused Math Lady Meme

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This is really helpful of course. To break into something you have to have this level of desire.

This could be the case. I’m really average at word games but excel at spatial puzzles. Brains do develop in diverse ways. My first language learning was disrupted as a child because I moved countries and was faced with learning a different language. This is to be celebrated but it is frustrating when you can’t seem to line up your desires with your outcomes. Then again maybe if you just stick at it through more pain, you will eventually break the rigid shape template and it will all start to flow?

Perhaps you need a different approach to learning. Maybe think about harmony and melody, not dots on the page. What something sounds like as opposed to what it looks like on a page? Sight reading is great and all but it’s not really the heart of music.

I wish you luck!

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