Your post prompted me to ask YOU a question:
What is the easiest way to learn music? - my gut feel is that Standard Notation makes the process unnecessarily difficult . .
This is a very off-topic subject, but here it goes anyway. If any admin feels like this should be sent to another topic, please do it.
When you say “Standard Notation” you mean writing music in music sheets? I will assume that that’s what you mean:
I started playing with my first keyboard back when I was 8 or so (1987-ish). I was just exploring, but I would spend hours playing with it. Then in 1991 I got my first drum kit and that was when I actually started making my own songs with my first band. I never learned music theory, not until 2016. I knew the basics, but now really what a Gm7 chord was, for example, which is a pretty basic concept. And when I started learning theory, a whole new door opened for me.
Up until that moment I was able to make music that people liked, I had some success in Portugal, my country, so it was never a matter of knowing theory or not, writing music sheets or not. It was about emotions and knowing what sounds good and what doesn’t. Learning theory just gave me another tool that allows me know to go different paths when I want to, unlock endless loops, etc.
Music to me is about emotions, not about just that chord X goes well with chord Y, because it’s mathematical compatible, which sometimes that’s what happens when you start learning music theory as the first method of learning. I believe that learning music, depending on your goals, of course, should always be with you spending years just messing with an instrument and seeing what feels good. You eventually end up learning that some things never sound right, even if you don’t know why. And to be honest, that’s the best approach, because most listeners don’t care about the “why” anyway. They either like the song or they don’t.
A lot of musicians, like Jacob Collier, for example, never clicked for me. His music may be very intricate and “well created” when it comes to the theory and all that, but it doesn’t resonate with me emotionally. That’s probably the issue I see with knowing too much theory. You start making things because you can and not because you you should.
When you make things because you can, you are thinking about yourself. When you make things because you should, then you are thinking about the song, which to me, is the most valuable thing. I want the best for the song, and the song will tell me constantly “this is too much, I don’t need this right now”.
So, back to your question: I don’t know if my suggestion of messing with an instrument for years is the “easiest” way, but it’s definitely the one I got more pleasure from and I’m grateful for that path. Learning music theory is easier and faster, it’s like a math equation, but it can lock you inside a cage right away, which can be a trap (no pun intended).
7개의 좋아요
Yes, the “standard” that has been around for a few hundred years - here is my “alternative” notation (there are 1000s of ANs) just for guitar:
I split this out because it is so off-topic, but in the spirit of encouraging real human convos I am happy to let it play out. 
My own music experience is very different to Tiago’s—almost the opposite! I played clarinet most of my childhood but I gave it away in favour of the drums, which I still play. I am useless at composing my own music and I’m not great at playing by ear, but I can read music well and rely on it heavily. I suspect it has something to do with classical training and playing in orchestras.
If you’re a dev, learning to read music should be a breeze.
Edit: I looked at your notation—sadly I don’t think drum music would fit on 3 stave lines. It rarely fits on 5. I think the number of lines required is quite different depending on the instrument.
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Music is so vast that it is really infinite. Its roots are from the first and basic human interactions; everything has its own rhythm. It is said that slaves in Africa invented the first rhythms to communicate with one another while they were in captivity.
I think that everyone can play music with or without pre-defined rules. Classical music is beautiful and it’s based on specific structures like tango, samba, jazz, blues or bachata.
But then we listen to a sitar with no frets on it, or a hand drum with a system to play based on harmonics, and understand there were no rules at all, just conventions to follow (or not).
Mystics (Sufis, Persians, Buddhists) play focusing on trance, rhythm, and tonal center or bending. Free form is their sacred method to play. Note that play here is not only performative but also joy.
Classical music excluded microtones and free rhythm, but later composers broke their own rules to prove they were a cage, not a completeness or culmination. So classic music gets expanded.
I always put my attention on street musicians, and I found a really deep connection with what they were playing. There’s a very well-known group that toured the world performing mainstream songs, but there’s so much more to discover by taking the time to explore streets and landscapes and listen to it.
Specifically replying to the OP from my own experience: musical expression comes from creativity, and creativity comes from intuition, sentiment, and intention. Music theory can give a very good shape to all of this, but it can also obscure it if the intellectual mind tries to go beyond the feelings.
I mean, love cannot be understood but lived; the same applies to music. I think a lot of us find in music our most genuine connection to wholeness, sometimes called the supreme being or god.
I really appreciate (a lot) the dedication of music theorists, and they usually touch my soul with their compositions. Meanwhile, I have a few years of shamanic apprenticeship, and I discovered that I can play my lakota-type drum (coming from the Amazon rainforest) with really no theory at all.
The same applies to my 15 years as a house/techno DJ. I’m an autodidact, but I used to be very analytical in my childhood. I learned almost everything by reading, but my relationship with music is simply different and ‘embodied,’ if that word fits.
I experienced a couple of ‘aha’ moments when I understood the power of vibration as a very clear expression of ‘the One’. I think that music it’s kind of magic and it’s on our DNA.
Everyone can play music and should really do it if feels the call.
2개의 좋아요
I play a bit of jazz piano and sing.
Classical notation is limiting but it’s definitely valuable to sight read.
The biggest problem with it though is that it removes the emphasis from listening.
Learning music by ear is far more powerful but takes a lot longer and is somewhat magical.
I remember one guy in one of my uni bands was able to sing in harmony almost instantly. That’s a skill built from listening not looking at notation.
Guitarists seem to have a better approach to learning music than pianists. I think it’s because they get to playing songs sooner and focus on song structure and harmony whilst pianists obsess over complex pieces.
But to cut to the chase:
- Play what inspires you (just as you might write a computer program to achieve a goal)
- Record yourself in single takes over and over until you nail it.
- Play with a group so you are forced to be good
I often play in church and I reharmonise some tunes to make it more modern. Prep for Sunday is talent building because you can’t fake it.
Bach wrote most of his music for Church on Sunday. That weekly goal made him. The feedback loop helped develop his genius and gave us his amazing repertoire.
Equally bands that just rehearse don’t get better as fast as those that actually gig regularly.
4개의 좋아요
와, 메타에서 이런 아이스브레이킹 주제가 나오다니, 평생 볼 수 없을 거라 생각했던 것을 보는 것 같다 
악기 배우는 건 항상 내게 큰 좌절의 대상이었어요.
사춘기 시절 3년 동안 피아노를 "배웠"습니다. 아주 성실하지는 않았지만 정말 훌륭한 선생님이 계셨어요. 유머 감각이 좋고 음악적 배경이 풍부한 분이셨죠.
하지만 피아노에 대해서는 정말 아무것도 기억하지 못했어요. 몇 년 후 혼자서 다시 배워보려 했죠. 좋아하는 곡을 귀로 듣고 NoteEdit(또는 비슷한 소프트웨어)으로 전곡을 받아 적는 등, 정말 수백 시간을 어설프게 연습하는 데 썼지만, 또다시 아무것도 기억하지 못했습니다.
몇 달 전에는 앱(Simply Piano)을 써서 네 번째, 혹은 다섯 번째로 배우기를 시도했습니다.
매번 피아노 건반에 손가락을 대면, 텅 빈 바다에 들어가는 기분이 들어요. 이렇게나 많은 시간을 쓰고, 악보를 그렇게나 많이 읽었는데도 악보를 읽을 수 없다는 사실이 믿기지가 않아요. 심지어 한 음표조차 읽을 수 없죠. 이 음은 G이고, 저 음은 F라고 알기 위해 악보의 음을 하나하나 손으로 세어야 합니다.
피아노를 배우고 싶다는 갈망이 있어요. 그 소리를 정말 사랑하고, 이 악기는 분명 저와 공명을 일으킵니다. 틀렸을 수도 있지만, 제 뇌의 구조가 음악 학습과는 정말 맞지 않는다고 확신합니다.
몇 달 동안 기타도 배워보았지만 결과는 마찬가지였어요.
많은 사람들이 인내와 끈기만 있다면 누구나 어떤 기술이든 배울 수 있다고 말합니다. 저는 그 말에 정말 동의하지 않습니다.
더 이상 그림을 그리지는 않겠지만, 그림에 대해 조금은 압니다. 그림을 못 그리는 사람들을 많이 봤어요. 몇 년, 심지어 몇십 년을 그 활동에 쏟아부었는데도 기술적 실력(또는 영감, 주제 등 무엇이든)은 여전히 초라하고 더 이상 발전하지 못하는 것 같았죠. 하지만 그들이 자기 작업에 만족한다면 그들에게는 좋은 일이죠. 그중 일부는 일이 어떻게 흘러가든, 그리고 그들이 할 수 있는 것에 분명 만족해합니다. 제 의견은 조금도 중요하지 않죠.
확실한 것은, 제가 그림에서 그렇게 기술적으로 제한적이면 행복하지 않을 것이라는 점입니다. 제 프로젝트와 창의성을 방해할 테니까요. 악기도 마찬가지라고 믿습니다.
배우거나 연주하려고 할 때 제 머릿속에서 무슨 일이 일어나는지는 설명하기가 어렵습니다.
형상 분류기를 사용하는 것과 같은 느낌이에요,
하지만 모든 나무 조각의 형태가 불분명해서, 어떤 조각이 어떤 구멍에 들어가는지 절대 알 수 없어요.
피아노 앞의 저를 정확히 묘사한 그림:
4개의 좋아요
This is really helpful of course. To break into something you have to have this level of desire.
This could be the case. I’m really average at word games but excel at spatial puzzles. Brains do develop in diverse ways. My first language learning was disrupted as a child because I moved countries and was faced with learning a different language. This is to be celebrated but it is frustrating when you can’t seem to line up your desires with your outcomes. Then again maybe if you just stick at it through more pain, you will eventually break the rigid shape template and it will all start to flow?
Perhaps you need a different approach to learning. Maybe think about harmony and melody, not dots on the page. What something sounds like as opposed to what it looks like on a page? Sight reading is great and all but it’s not really the heart of music.
I wish you luck!
4개의 좋아요
Thanks to all who responded - it was all very interesting and helpful! There are a few ideas arising that I will experiment with and see how I go . .
BTW, it just occurred to me - if anyone is interested in setting up a “Learning Music” Discourse site to cover the stuff people talked about here - I would help kickstart it!
3개의 좋아요
Sounds like a contender for our Free plan.
I hear ya! I think we are definitely open to the idea, with guardrails. I want to avoid a whole lot of low quality off topic fluff, but I love that people are learning from each other and talking.
2개의 좋아요
My background is BioMed Research and IT - so this is of interest:
Seoul National University team reconstructs imagined melodies from brain signals - DongA Science
I would love to have that tech!
2개의 좋아요
That’s beautiful and reminds me about the papers I read about mantras, Icaros or shamanic drumming after getting into them.
2개의 좋아요
이 말씀이 정확히 어떤 뜻인지 설명해 주시겠어요?
저는 음악가이자 음악 프로듀서로서 커뮤니티를 구축하고 있는데, 당연히 음악 토론 섹션이 포함될 것입니다.
저는 전반적으로 소셜 미디어에 지쳐서, 제 음악에 대해 이야기할 뿐만 아니라 음악 전반에 대해, 그리고 제가 열정을 가지고 있는 다른 주제들에 대해서도 이야기할 수 있는 커뮤니티를 만드는 것이 주요 목표입니다.
의도를 명확히 설명해 주신다면, 그것이 제 커뮤니티 목표의 일부인지 알려드릴 수 있을 것 같습니다.
2개의 좋아요
여기 구독자 전용이지만 Discourse를 사용하는 피아노 학습 사이트가 있습니다.
2개의 좋아요
제 경우를 생각해보면, '청력 훈련(play by ear)'을 배울 때 의미 있는 것이면서도 직관적인 ‘대안적’ 악보가 있었으면 합니다. 텔레그램 채팅으로 대화할 수 있다면 더 잘 설명드릴 수 있을 것 같아요?