Badge Discussion: Like Ratios + Spending Likes

Some Numbers on my site:

  • Admired: 67 Members (0.44% of last 15 days active users)

  • Gives Back: 5 (0.03%)

  • Generous: 0

My point is the requirements could be shifted if we simply ensure the target audience for the badge starts with people who have achieved tl2 or even tl1.

It would be lame to have people get “admired” after their first two days on the site.

Or as @sam noted just have bronze, silver, and gold versions of these. (Well, not for reaching max likes in a day, the other two) also note the number of likes per day has increased several times, so people might have reached the like limit earlier, when it was lower…

2 Likes

@eviltrout, I feel that the Generous badge is biased against long term users. If a first day user joins and looks around a bit, they are very likely to reach there like limit. On the other hand, a TL4 user would need to like almost every post made on a moderately busy site to hit their limit.

For reference, what are the default rate limits for likes? I tried searching on Github, but I have no idea where to look.

Edit: Just saw @codinghorror’s post. If the goal is to hit TL2+ users, I’m not sure the generous badge is a good idea. It would encourage users who want the badge to just open every post they can and like everything.

That’s fine. Their name is “signed” on every post they like, and the likee gets notified as well. So it is a very public action. People aren’t that generous with likes because they know it is akin to cosigning a post, as in “I, Jane User, also support the words printed here.”

Generous is not any kind of risk for gaming IMO

1 Like

OK. Even if it isn’t at risk for gaming I still feel it is biased against those users with higher trust.

Yes, I could btw I just used some of these queries

Indeed, we should build a progressive path. I tried with custom queries

My recommendation for badges:

Admired

I am very worried about “Admired” cause I am not sure it encourages desired behavior.

Take a step back, what behavior is it encouraging?

  • If I am at ratio 0.74 and want to get to 0.75

    • Should I go to my “back catalog” and start editing so stuff is bumped and gets more likes?

    • Should I stop “posting” so “back catalog” accrues likes

    • Should I adjust my style of posting so I only post stuff that is likely to get liked (WARNING: kitty images)

Honestly, I can not think of any behavior that is good that “admired” encourages, I think we should drop that badge.

Gives back

This is a good badge, it encourages hitting the “like” button, which in turn fosters community.

Bronze: “Thank You”

  • Min 6 liked posts, ratio 50%

Silver:

  • Min 100 liked posts, ratio 100%

Gold: “Lover”

  • Min 500 posts, ratio 200% (eg: you got to like 2 posts for every like you get)

Platinum: :zogstrip: @zogstrip

  • Min 2000 liked posts, Ratio 100000%

Generous

BronzeOut of Love

  • Ran out of likes once

Silver

  • Ran out of likes 5 times

Gold

  • Ran out of likes in 20 times

Note the idea behind Gold is that it is very hard to get, we need to be very careful to devalue gold badges.

5 Likes

That all looks good, I’d increase Gold generous to 30 days.

As for “Admired” I wonder if this is the problem:

  • (count of posts with at least 1 like) / (total post count) > 0.75
  • requires a minimum of 100 posts

Maybe if we just kill off the ratio concept altogether, and make it the absolute count of posts you have which have at least 1 like? Perhaps:

  • Bronze – 20 liked posts
  • Silver – 100 posts with at least 2 likes
  • Gold – 300 posts with at least 5 likes

Adjust stats to taste, I’d look at boing boing first to get an idea of what the right base thresholds are.

5 Likes

Yes, love that change, it encourages good behavior.

2 Likes

A couple ideas for other names for the “Gives Back” badge:

  • Understanding
  • In Touch
  • Empathetic
  • Connecting
3 Likes

Wouldn’t that encourage “like spam”?

2 Likes

Want to ask again:

Like @Henrik_B, I am concerned about de-valuing likes, and I still feel that this badge is biased against higher trust levels. Maybe I won’t feel that way once I have numbers in front of me, but I don’t know anyone who has hit their like limit, even at TL1, and if TL4 has 3 times that amount, I question if this will ever be obtained by long-term users.

4 Likes

Whether it is too easy for new members to get is an issue, but long-term members probably don’t need this kind of encouragement; they already know how to behave. If it is a one-time badge anyway then going forward people would earn it before being long-term members (Sorry long term members :smile: ).

I’ve made a lot of changes to the badges following the above feedback. Here’s what I ended up with:

Rewarding Likes Received

Appreciated: Has received at least 1 like on 20 posts
Respected: Has received at least 2 likes on 100 posts
Admired: Has received at least 5 likes on 300 posts

Using Up Daily Likes

I took @sam’s suggestion and used song names for all three.

Out of Love: Used the maximum amount of likes in a day
Higher Love: Used the maximum amount of likes in a day 5 times
Crazy in Love: Used the maximum amount of likes in a day 20 times

Reciprocating Likes

Thank You: Has at least 20 liked posts
Gives Back: Has at least 100 liked posts and a very high like ratio (1.0)
Empathetic: Has at least 500 liked posts and a superlative like ratio (2.0)

12 Likes

@eviltrout I think this is a legit concern, perhaps only do the bronze badge for now ( or perhaps 2 bronze ones, one for running out of likes as tl1 and one for running out of likes as tl3 cause the numbers are diff and that teaches one of the tl3 nuances)

3 Likes

Nah I am not concerned about this at all, based on all my experience across dozens of Discourse instances… there is absolutely no way this badge would cause rampant like-craziness. It’s just not a credible concern…

1 Like

OK, rampant like-craziness concerns aside, could someone please share the default values like rate limit, or the appropriate location in the code where one can find it?

1 Like

https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/20ce7f29e048f6c9ca4a6d2915f830ee7e24823a/config/site_settings.yml#L765-L781

Note the additional multipliers per trust level.

2 Likes

Thanks @DeanMarkTaylor!

Now that I have some numbers to work with…

@pfaffman pointed out that long-term members don’t need this kind of encouragement. I would disagree here. I feel it is just as important to keep your long term users engaged, happy, and participating as it is to train new users to use likes.

For new user through TL1, they need 50 likes in a day to receive this badge. That limit isn’t too high, but I feel that one is unlikely to hit it unless they really like giving likes, or a site is very, very active. I would assume that this like limit was was tweaked based on feedback back when it was first instituted, and thus is at a level where the majority of new users don’t hit it. Once a user is around for at least 15 days and has regular participation on the site, their limit goes up to 75. Be really, really active and hit 50 days and your limit goes up to 100 (assuming the multipliers are not cumulative). Get the manual promotion to TL4 and the limit is now 150.

150 is a lot of likes. At Stonehearth we average 100 posts a day. So while a new user would only need to like ~1/2 of the posts in a day to hit their limit, a long-term user would need to like every new post, plus half of the posts from the previous day. Unlike some badges with high numbers required to gain (like the Nice share/post/topic badge), this badge requires a single user to click like x times, and they have only 24 hours to do so. The other like related badges have no time limit.

td;dr: I am concerned about the difficulty for long-term users to achieve this badge, and it seems to be the only badge create thus far that is affected by a user’s trust level (although somewhat indirectly).