Copyright regarding creations with high level of creation and the right of deletion

The fact that we all know this (now) and that this man or his inventions were not erased from public memory shows that we at least are able to learn from this since we kept all the facts. If we would have removed all his books and papers then we would not be able to find out what went wrong.

In other words, I think your hypothetical desire to remove such an endorsement is not a very good idea, whether the forum owner allows it or not.

Which brings me back to an unanswered question

2 Likes

Well, I don’t know this case in detail, and I don’t know if Thomas Midgley realized his error (in his life time).

That being said, this is about patents and not copyright. Both are independent of each other (as already mentioned) and must therefore be assessed from a different perspective.

Besides, I’m not someone who holds more than 170 patents, :wink: but only someone who insists on the right to freedom of expression and this includes the possibility to change an opinion afterwards and to stop the dissemination of my (wrong) original opinion.

1 Like

I moved this to support, as the epistemological direction this discussion is going is well beyond the scope of community. However, @Johannes_Ai2, here’s some practical advice concerning your situation, hypothetical or otherwise


The solution to this issue is not copyright law. The correct course would be to communicate to the admins of the site in question that you have concerns about some of your opinions you’ve expressed, and would like them removed if possible, anonymized if not. And then, after having a polite discussion between adults, you consider your next steps.

If for some reason they will not remove your posts, you must combine your assessment of the danger those posts represent to the public with your ability to activate your local health/government agencies to act on your behalf.

I know, that does not sound fun! But it will actually do something. Copyright law, as argued in a public forum, is not the tool you want to be reaching for. :slight_smile:

3 Likes

Thanks for keeping an eye on this @maiki, but I’ve slid it back to community as that is usually where these discussions live. :+1:

I’ve also removed slow mode, as I’m unsure the discussion so far has warranted it? Obviously, if things become heated then we can always deploy some extra moderation tools, but so far things seem reasonable (and quite interesting).

5 Likes

I doubt that it does. That would violate my freedom of expression to say “look what this guy said”

3 Likes

Of course, it is.

I don’t want any support from public authorities and I don’t need it either. I rely solely on my very own rights, and they are to express my opinion / (scientific) view and to change it when I see fit.

But that is not a restriction on freedom of expression if someone else refers to my (former) opinion, which I have long since abandoned.

2 Likes

Ok. Well, let us know how things went in court.

3 Likes

Out of curiosity, how would this compare to something published in a scientific journal, for instance? If someone were referencing an old study/opinion that had since been recanted/debunked by the author, their argument would surely be weaker for it?

Obviously, you feel quite strongly about what you want to happen in your situation, and (as has been mentioned already) a lawyer/some legal advice would be your best bet, but I wondered what outcome you would hope for from this forum?

4 Likes

Journals are a totally different realm. If you want something taken down there you (or your institution) will write to the editor and make a case for a retraction and (usually) apologize profusely.

Retracting something from a journal is pretty extreme. Others in the field are likely to have reviewed the paper prior to submission, so the act of retraction in itself can be seen as a black mark on any perceived editorial rigor. The paper/article usually isn’t pulled offline, instead being marked as retracted like this:

The journal will publish a separate notice from editor or author explaining what was retracted and why:

Even if you’re successful in having something retracted, the likelihood is that it’s going to follow you around professionally for the foreseeable future.

Unfortunately we live in a “publish or die” culture, particularly in certain research circles. Despite the reputational damage posed by the above it doesn’t seem to serve as a sufficient deterrent.

You can track such stuff here:

3 Likes

I have seen over the years in some companies’ TOS that the user agrees to grant them a license in perpetuity to use, retain, etc. any and all work uploaded to their site and without compensation.

Another problem is what about all the works (from websites) that are archived? Even if one can successfully get a website to delete their work, it is still archived in other places.

As one possible solution, could a post be edited to show one’s change of opinion with the current opinion shown and the original material marked as “original post” after that? It may not be the most desirable thing to want, but ‘once on the Internet, always on the Internet’ is something that seems to come back to bite many. I think that’s why people are always told, “Think before you post.” Do I want what I post to be forever? If not, don’t post.

2 Likes

Yes, at the time I published my post, I agreed and accepted that it could be copied etc. Of course, I can no longer influence this afterwards.

However, I do not want the old post to continue to be published on the platform by the platform operators, but rather that it be deleted. I am aware that this does not automatically mean that my old contribution will disappear completely from the platform network (was posted elsewhere). However, I want it not (anymore) to be possible to refer to my old (original) post directly via my topic (guide, extension post).

To make it short:
I have followed/observed several excellent users on a particular forum over the years. These were then (for whatever reason) suspended from the forum. After that, none of their contributions (topics, guides, extensions) could be accessed. All have been permanently removed from the forum. These were also no longer visible / available for admins / moderators.

Conclusion:
So not only is it possible, it’s exactly what I want (and how it’s supposed to be).

1 Like

Sorry but after reading all the posts on this topic, you finally mentioned that you

do not want the old post to continue to be published on the platform by the platform operators, but rather that it be deleted.

so I was just thinking why don’t just you ask the platform operators (politely of course) to remove the posts you want to be removed. It really won’t be a legal matter unless the platform operators want to enforce the law on you because of your posts.

1 Like

I did it and now I’m waiting 


(PS: Is it really necessary to use at least 20 chars?)

1 Like

Not one to miss out on extolling the features of Discourse
 :slight_smile:

For anyone not aware, there are a few delete options available to Discourse admins:

  • Anonymise User - This is where the details in the user profile are wiped, but all content remains. These posts will then be attributed to eg anon31415926 (more info: Anonymizing Users in Discourse)
  • Delete Posts - These are essentially ‘soft-deleted’, and are still available for admins and moderators (and can be ‘undeleted’ if required)
  • Permanently Delete - This is the ‘hard-delete’ option where they are struck from the database. This is now possible on a topic/post basis through the UI (more info: Introducing permanently delete post functionality). To delete posts on a larger scale you would need to use the rails console, which may not be available to all admins depending on their hosting (ie. they would need to contact someone with server access)

These are the responsibility of each foum’s admins, so different communities may have different approaches to how and when they deploy them.

(And for the 20-character minimum, it is configurable for each Discourse forum, but we like to stick as close to the defaults as is practicable on Meta so people can get a flavour of ‘Discourse in action’. :slight_smile: It also means that if we get a lot of examples where one isn’t working we can change the default. :+1:)

8 Likes

Perhaps I missed this somewhere, but did you ask them to remove your content and they refused?

2 Likes

As I said (in post #33): (btw, I need to add “(in post #33)” to be able to post :upside_down_face:)

3 Likes

Another important question:
If I’ve been blocked or suspended in the forum and my posts (specifically my guides & extensions) have not been deleted, then I no longer have the ability to access my own posts and edit them if necessary. Correct?

If so, then it can only be a joke that I, the sole owner of my creations, are denied access to them and making adjustments. :upside_down_face:

1 Like

Well, you’ve probably broken some regulation or rules of the forum that made the forum moderators to blocked you. It is certainly a very unfortunate situation.

1 Like

Even if that were the case, which is of course a matter of opinion, that doesn’t change the fact.

It cannot be right / legal that I as the owner of the creation don’t have access to MY own creation(s).

So either I must / should have access and can make adjustments or my creations have to be removed beforehand (before permanent blocking/suspension) (at least if I request it).

1 Like

This is going off topic again, but the post edit time limit and tl2 post edit time limit settings might have prevented editing even if you weren’t having a ding dong with the forum owners.

1 Like