Duplicate/Should Have Searched flags

For forums with feature request / bug report categories, it’s not uncommon for duplicate bug reports / feature requests to be filed. For all forums, there’s the issue of people not liking to use the search feature and immediately jump to posting whatever is on their mind. The forum I’m part does have feature requests / bug reports, and while we don’t use Discourse (yet), both the existing forum software and Discourse do not provide good ways for dealing with both duplicates and people who neglect to use the search feature (yes I’m aware Discourse suggests similar posts when you’re drafting your own, but more on that later).

With duplicate reports/requests, I’ve noticed that even when someone points out that it’s a duplicate feature request, no matter how nice or mean they word it, and regardless if it’s the first reply on the topic or not, discussion still continues. Forum members will prefer to discuss features / bugs on the most recent topic, probably because one or all of the following:

  • it feels wrong for them to resurrect a topic that hasn’t been posted on in so long
  • they want to respond to someone’s suggestion/outlook but it’s only on the new topic and not the old one
  • they didn’t see the “this is a duplicate topic” post and continue leaving feedback on the topic

It’s really difficult to manually moderate that kind of stuff and merge topics so often – I really like the way Discourse headed with the automatic flagging system that took the workload off the moderators’ backs, and duplicate post flagging could do some good.

As for posting topics before using the search feature, it becomes a problem because:

  • People make a goof every now and then and forget to use the search feature, but similar to how even though birthdays are rare, only taking 0.27% (a single day) of the entire year, so many people exist on Earth that there are countless birthdays per day, because of the volume of members on the forum it’s not uncommon to see posts that could have been answered by searching because there are such a large amount of people tripping up occasionally.

  • Since there isn’t a “should have searched” flag to slowly eat away at their trust level and boot them out if and when they continue to ignore the search feature because they don’t feel like using it, manual moderation is the only way to get rid of these people. “Oh you should have used the search” isn’t exactly “this guy should be removed” material, so this results in these people never being removed and they continue to poison the forum. This manual moderation babysitting is also the exact opposite direction of the one Discourse is going in the event that moderators actively work to oust these types of people.

  • Just linking to topics where the question has already been answered does not motivate people to use the search feature in the future (this comes from personal experience – they don’t realize they’re inconveniencing others when they could have just searched it themselves), telling them “please use the search feature” (either on their topic or in a PM) comes off as rude, and since you’re calling them out they get super defensive about it or they just don’t care that they’re inconveniencing other people and in either case telling them doesn’t work.

Looking back at “Your topic is similar to”,

forum members may forget that it exists after a certain period of time, ignore it and not care about it, or close it because it gets in the way. It also may not provide perfect matches to similar topics and posters would assume there was no similar topic even though they would have found it through the search feature. Additionally, we’ve had problems with topics where they start repeating themselves ever couple of pages – people are lazy and don’t want to read the whole topic before posting so they end up asking the same questions over and over and over. We can’t start booting people left and right for this because so many people do it, and just telling them not to doesn’t stop them from doing that in the future. I’d also like to point out that StackExchange has the “your topic is similar to” notification as well, but the community can still flag topics as duplicates – it’s because the “your topic is similar to”, while helpful in solving the problem, does not solve the problem completely.

Getting a PM that says your post/topic has been hidden because it was flagged by the community and knowing that if you continue that behavior you will eventually get booted from the community provides excellent motivation to improve behavior, and I’m sure the Discourse team knows that very well. It would be amazing if there were flags for duplicate posts / should have used the search feature or read the topic in general so duplicate posts and people who are too quick to post manageable, and preventing moderators from having to babysit the forum with manual moderation every time this occurs. When flagged for being a duplicate topic, it should automatically either be merged with the original topic or closed and linked to the original topic (merging it directly might result in weird results). When flagged for not using the search feature / reading the topic, the post should be hidden automatically like if it were spam and the poster notified in their inbox that it had already been answered (with links people provided to the post(s) that had answered their question).

2개의 좋아요

This is a lot of words to process. What is your proposal? Can you post a visual mockup of how it would work?

1개의 좋아요

My TLDR, he is asking for a new flag type.

Honestly I do not think its such a big deal to reply with a comment and flag for moderation.

1개의 좋아요

Thank you for the quick responses! You are correct in your summarization of the original post (actually two flag types though). The forum software I use currently requires manual moderation of duplicate threads / posts. I am speaking through personal experience that manual moderation does not work.

Asking things that have already been answered on the same thread seems innocent enough that forum moderators won’t delete them (they’d have to micromanage the forum to do that even if they opted to, so they wouldn’t want to bother with it), and then a couple of pages later it’s grown out of control and further pages are almost exact duplicates of previous pages. This is why I ask for an automatic way to deal with people who don’t read threads before posting – threads that repeat themselves are not useful for feedback, and when you get to the point where people are saying the same thing repeatedly the forum staff bail out since it’s not worth the effort to sift through duplicate posts (again, coming from personal experience). After the thread is abandoned by the forum staff, further feedback by forum members is for naught. Flags were created so the moderators wouldn’t have to get involved in every little problem – this seems like it fits into exactly what flags were created for.

As for the duplicates, ask yourself why they are a problem. It separates discussion on the same topic into multiple threads, making it difficult and more time consuming for developers to gather feedback. In the case of the forum I’m a part of, the developers and staff members are the same, so with reporting duplicates and having the staff take care of it, does that really help? Instead of spending time sifting through duplicate threads, they’re now manually having to micromanage the forums. Manual reports sadly do not solve the problem. This is why I am requesting a flag to mark posts as duplicates.

tl;dr duplicate flag and “use search / read thread” (for lack of a better name) flags

Just for reference, I’m assuming the “Something Else” under flagging does not automatically hide posts and that moderators have to manually jump in if a post is flagged for something else. Is this a correct assumption? As the forum I used hasn’t switched to Discourse yet, all I have to go on is this topic on flags, and codinghorror mentions:

Since “something else” can be an infinite number of reasons, I thought filing a flag under “something else” did not apply to this since three different flags could be for completely different things. If 3 “something else” flags automatically hides posts, then there is no need for two new flags – users can still help keep the community clean with something else without having to wait for moderators to manually clean up posts.

The modal currently has 5 options
3 Flags in the proper sense

  • Off-topic
  • Inappropriate
  • Spam

and 2 Messages

  • to the poster
  • to Moderators (the “something else”)

The Messages do not “Flag” nor count as Flags against the member

The “something else” can be a lot of things, including
The post needs MarkDown formatting
The member didn’t Edit a prior post but made another, identical but with additional text
The replies have become redundant and the topic should probably be closed
The member had poor luck in a category and instead of asking for the topic to be moved started another cross-post in a different category

I may be a “softie” but IMHO though they do cause more work for Moderators they are for the most part not “offenses” unless and until a member intentionally continues the practice.

I’d say that for our Moderators the most common issue is posts needing MarkDown formatting. (well, that and asking “please provide more information”)

2개의 좋아요

Yes. (Just in case that wasn’t clear from @Mittineague’s explanation of the options.)

It’s a useful option, because it lets the member flagging explain what they think is wrong, but leaves it to mods to deal with. So duplicate topics, “should be merged with …”, “should be split”, “should be moved to…” are all suitable here.

https://community.signalusers.org/에서 하루에 약 15건의 중복 게시물이 발생합니다. 포럼 사용자가 주제나 게시물을 중복으로 신고하고, 해당 중복 대상 주제에 대한 URL을 제공할 수 있다면 매우 유용할 것입니다. 관리자가 이를 승인하면 표준 조치로 해당 주제를 숨기고 잠그며, "이 주제는 [다른 포럼 주제 링크]의 중복이므로 폐쇄되었습니다."라는 게시물을 추가하는 것입니다.

하지만 이미 가능한 것 아닌가요?

  • 신고 버튼 선택
  • “기타” 신고 유형 선택
  • "dupe of " 입력
  • URL 붙여넣기
1개의 좋아요

이것뿐 아니라, 이것이 플래깅의 기본 사유로 설정된다면 이 소프트웨어를 사용하려는 커뮤니티들이 중복 주제 허용을 금지하는 지침을 따르도록 강제하게 될 것입니다. 중복 주제는 대부분의 곳에서 비추천되지만, 일부 소수의 경우에서는 그렇지 않을 수도 있습니다. 저는 관리자가 자체 사전 정의된 플래그 사유를 추가할 수 있도록 허용하는 것에 동의할 것 같습니다. 다만 이미 그런 요청이 많이 올라와 있을 것이라고 생각합니다. 그래도 보통 ‘기타’ 항목을 사용하면 큰 문제가 없습니다.

2개의 좋아요

제가 원하는 것은 플래그 자체뿐만 아니라, 중복된 주제에 대해 모더레이터가 취할 수 있는 조치들이 훨씬 더 중요합니다. 플래그에 동의하는 옵션을 제공한 후, 다음과 같은 단계가 이루어지기를 바랍니다.

  1. 주제 숨기기
  2. 주제 잠금
  3. 시스템 계정에서 "이 주제는 [url]의 중복입니다."라는 게시물을 올리기

이를 통해 주제 검색 시 해당 주제가 추천되지 않도록 막고, 이 중복 스레드에서 토론이 계속되는 것을 방지하며, 이 주제를 방문하는 모든 사용자에게 왜 잠금과 숨김 처리가 되었는지, 그리고 원래 주제가 어디에 있는지 게시물을 통해 알릴 수 있습니다.

현재로서는 모든 중복 주제에 대해 이러한 조치를 수동으로 수행하고 있지만, 상당한 시간이 소요됩니다.

제가 찾고 있는 것은 플래그가 아니라, "[url]의 중복으로 닫기"라는 조치일 수 있습니다.

네, 하지만 Stack Overflow를 설립한 사람으로서 말씀드리면, 여러분이 요청하시는 것은 상상하시는 것보다 훨씬, 훨씬, 훨씬 더 어렵습니다.

사람들이 진정으로 원하는 것은 “이것이 중복 질문임을 자동으로 감지해서 사용자를 대신해 수정해 주는” 마법 같은 버튼인데, 그것을 구현하는 것은 .. 놀라울 정도로 어렵습니다. 기본적으로, 게시하기 전에 먼저 검색하는 노력을 하기를 거부하거나 할 수 있는 무한히 많은 사람들이 아무렇게나 타이핑하는 것을 결코 이길 수 없습니다. 여러분이 실제로 할 수 있는 일은 게시를 훨씬 더 어렵게 만들어서, 강제로 그들이 처음부터 해야 했을 검색을 하도록 하는 것입니다.

1개의 좋아요

하지만 지금 당신은 내가 이미 그러한 자동화 기능을 요청하고 있다고 말하고 있습니다. Stack Overflow처럼 수백만 명의 방문자를 처리해야 하는 것은 아닙니다. 하루에 약 30개의 새 주제, 그중 일부는 중복인 것들을 다루고 있습니다. 수동 검토와 약간의 논의가 가능한 여지가 있습니다. 제가 요청하는 것은 "동의"를 누르고, "숨김"을 누른 뒤, 다시 해당 주제를 찾아 "잠금"을 누르고, 그 다음 "이것은 [URL 복사 붙여넣기]의 중복입니다"라는 게시글을 작성해야 하는 일련의 반복 작업을 하지 않아도 되는 것입니다.

플래그의 이름이 "중복"이고 플래그를 등록한 사람이 URL을 제출하도록 요청한다면, 이는 URL이 이미 관리자에게 제공되어 있는 것을 의미하며, 관리자는 단순히 동의하거나 반대하기만 하면 됩니다. 동의하는 경우, 표준 조치로 잠금, 숨김, 그리고 "이것은 [URL]의 중복입니다"라는 자동화된 답변을 게시할 수 있으며, 관리자는 검토 대기열을 떠나지 않아도 됩니다.

이것은 완전한 자동화 시스템이 아니라, 이미 가지고 있는 것보다 조금 더 자동화된 것에 불과합니다.

사용자들과의 경험을 통해 알 수 있는 것은, 그들이 당신이 요청하는 일을 하지 않으며, 화면에 표시된 텍스트를 읽지 않는다는 점입니다.

이 한계를 고려할 때, 모더레이터 도구를 개선할 수 있을 것입니다. 왜냐하면 저는 모더레이터들이 (대부분) 요청하는 일을 수행하고 화면에 표시된 내용을 읽을 것이라고 _생각_하기 때문입니다. 따라서 이 부분에 초점을 맞추는 것이 좋을 것 같습니다.

1개의 좋아요

좋습니다. 참고로, 별도 플래그를 제안한 이유는 플래그를 등록하는 사용자에게 원본 토픽의 URL을 제공하도록 장려하기 위해서입니다. 제가 관리하는 포럼에서는 보통 사용자가 "[url]의 중복"이라는 설명과 함께 다른 항목에 플래그를 등록하는 경우가 많습니다. 해당 URL을 가져와서 이것이 실제로 해당 URL의 중복임을 알리는 ‘공식’ 문서를 시스템이 자동으로 게시하면 좋겠습니다. 이를 위해 별도 ‘중복’ 플래그를 제안했는데, 이렇게 하면 입력값이 필요한 URL만으로 충분합니다.

관리자 화면에서는 참조된 (원본으로 추정되는) 토픽의 제목과 날짜를 볼 수 있으면 도움이 될 것입니다.

그리고 검토 대기열을 ‘중복’ 플래그 유형으로 필터링할 수 있으면 좋겠습니다.

네, 여기에서 모더레이터 도구를 어떻게 개선할 수 있는지 중점을 둔 대략적인 목업을 제공해 주시면 도움이 될 것입니다.

1개의 좋아요