Structuring an active support community migrating from Facebook

Ooh, thanks everybody for the replies! I was also super “impressed” to find them in my e-mail this morning – the integration with e-mail is going to be a huge asset for our community.

I’m not surprised! I tend to over-engineer and over-optimise. I started reading @HAWK ‘s article on tags, which is useful to me.

Fun fact, nearly 20 years ago I was writing this: https://climbtothestars.org/archives/2006/02/11/tags-and-categories-are-not-the-same/ (if anybody remembers, at the time WordPress was treating both as one same thing and I had some beef with it :joy:) – but the relationship between tags and categories in a publishing context, or community context, is not the same, so it’s very helpful to read about tags on Discourse. Also because they do seem somewhat more “structured/ontological” than the way I tend to see tags in my world.

So, definitely, in the light of this, I think Senvelgo, high doses, different types of equipment, emergencies etc should probably all be tags. My take-away is: use a category if there is an access right issue or a very specific “box” for the use-case/topic covered.

In that light, veterinarians are clearly a category (because it’s private to them). Grief/death also, because we want to “manage” those posts outside the regular stream of posting.

I think that “Beginners/Welcome” needs to be one too (proof: we already split that out on Facebook).

Dosing advice could justify a separate category because we want to control posting rights differently there (on the other hand: will people “workaround” that by trying to sneak their dosing advice posts in other places? sure…)

One thing that’s not clear: can we give “moderation rights” to certain users on certain tags? e.g. if we have “tech support” or “food” as a tag rather than a category, can we have members who have rights to moderate discussion in those topics but not others?

In our case, we do have eight years of active community life to draw from, so we do have a rather good view on what people post about – on facebook. It’s true, though, that being in another environment will change behaviours, so that is an unknown.

We can look up join dates manually, and have no e-mails. However, as we have an “onboarding members” culture, we have manual lists of member cohorts by username. My idea is to ask people for their Facebook name when they sign up, and their join date if they remember. Then we can sort them into user groups according to the year they joined. We’ll see if it’s worth trying to automate that.

yeah, I’m very much aware of this issue! in our case, we need to balance it with the “overwhelm” for our new (non-migrating) members. Members typically join our community when their cat is freshly diagnosed, often in bad shape, and they are freaking out. Seeing the “intensity” of involvement of our active members, everything people are doing in terms of care (that their veterinarian didn’t tell them about), we are in a space that is at very high risk of creating more distress for the people we are trying to support.

This is where the idea of “chopping things up” so people are not faced with everything and the kitchen sink when all they thought they were going to get were some kind words and a tip or two.

This would definitely be open to all. But is there a way to exclude posts from that category from the “everything” feed? or create an ad hoc “everything” feed that is not really everything?

Thanks, I’ll definitely have a look at this.

To give you an idea what we’re dealing with, here’s some insight into our current documentation in Google Docs, which honestly functions pretty well for now. There is an Index Page which is kind of where we assume people will start from, and a Master List for people who are library rats or who are just trying to lay their hands on something specific.

The issues:

  • they’re not “on the web” even though they’re public Google docs, and I’d like them to be more findable by the general public => first idea was to convert them to web pages on the WordPress site we have
  • people struggle to link to them, and also “remember” what exists => having them integrated in Discourse would be interesting in that respect, as long as it can be done in a way that also satisfies the first point above

What works well:

  • we can distribute access rights per document to the handful of people who might contribute on keeping them up-to-date
  • they print well, which is important in a world (the veterinary world) where paper still very much has a place
  • once added to one’s google drive, they are searcheable

To help people find their way through the documentation, I recently made them accessible via an ai/chatbot interface with NotebookLM, but I’m hoping something similar might be possible inside Discourse.

If I remember correctly when I tested the Docs plugin, it didn’t really work for my use case because it makes the documents too much like topics. But maybe my thinking around this still needs to evolve.

2 Likes

Unfortunately not / depends. Tag (groups) have very little “security”-type features compared to the more full-blown categories, example:


Lastly, one thing about Discourse being open - is your community going to be a “free signup for all” open community, or requires admin approval for signups?

If it’s the former, I’ll highly recommend setting up spam prevention using a cheap LLM.

3 Likes

Very much admin approval. One way we keep the community high quality is we pay attention to who we let in and actively get to know people and orient them as they arrive.

thanks for the info regarding tags. As our community has grown and become more busy we have felt the « need » to be able to have « subject moderators », ie people who are tasked with moderating certain subjects like food or tech problems.

4 Likes

Yes. See the default_cateegories_muted setting.

3 Likes

Here’s where I’m at (after typing this all up, I realise my structure hasn’t evolved that much… but it has, a little):

  • welcome area for new members (orientation, introduction, basic general questions answered)
  • getting set up to take part in the community and deal with FD:
    • cat files → member has cat file
    • tech support: spreadsheet and using Discourse → member has spreadsheet
    • equipment: get, give, discuss → member has required gear/emergency kit
  • support/care/managing FD (access maybe partially limited until member has cleared the welcome stage? or based on something else? need to think more about this bit and see what criteria the Discourse system allows, aside from groups – is it possible to add tags to member profiles? hmm I guess that would be like “adding them to a group”…)
  • food: always questions about this, and something we have “specialists” for, I really think it’s good to have it separate to make it visible, which will at the same time attract people and help us reorient them
  • grief: separate to avoid flooding the general category (or maybe sub-category of the general one, but excluded from higher-level listing, muted?)
  • vets: private
  • off-topic: self-explanatory
  • helpers: private
  • admin team: private

managed with tags, at least for starters: senvelgo, high dose, emergencies, comorbidities, insulin types, moral support, irregular schedules, insulin changes, types of gear, giving/second-hand

On the fence about behaviour/medical training, but I guess we can start it out as a tag… though as with food, giving it its own category might usefully communicate (in this case) how important it is.

Also on the fence about dosing advice, because this is where there is a “learning curve”, we’re not just there to give people the answer (as for many other questions) but to teach them to become autonomous… so, I still think a separate category would make sense. Also, we want to enforce some prerequisites. We already do it with house rules on facebook, but people keep bypassing them and helpers don’t always realise… with a separate category it would be clear: those with the green light get posting rights in that category, and if a post shows up in the wrong category with a request for dosing advice, it means it shouldn’t “simply” be responded to.

Or do we simply make food, medical training, and dosing advice (and grief support?) sub-categories of “support/care”? When a category has sub-categories, is it possible to create a topic either in the parent category or in one of the sub-categories? In that case that give an “out” regarding choice paralysis: when in doubt, post in the parent category, and friendly moderators will move it to the right one?

I’m guessing that there are themes or settings which allow displaying chosen tags like a “menu bar”, with a different tag selection by category? For example, for the “equipment” category, we would have “tag buttons” for syringes, insulin, glucose monitors, test strips, etc.

But for the general category we might have other tags put forward.

I realise, writing this, that I have a hard time saying “categories” each time because in my mind, I am thinking about this community design within the “boards” or “forums” paradigm. So that’s how I’m thinking about Discourse categories, but maybe this is not quite right. The kind of separation I feel between these various “spaces” I envision for the community is more like separate physical spaces, actually. I might be twisting categories a bit, beyond how they were thought or expected to be used.

Yes, that’s possible.

I thought it might be relevant for you to know that the use of tags can also be restricted to certain categories, or that certain categories can require the user to add tags from a specific tag group. Set up structured tagging with tag groups and category tag restrictions :warning: These rules don’t apply to staff, so to test the setup you need a separate test account.

Your description of categories as “spaces” reminded me of the following blog post where they are described as “rooms”:

1 Like

Categories as rooms is exactly how I see it – but then, the label “categories” really clashes with the image in my brain. I know I can replace “category” with another word, but it still makes my wonder – why the choice? (particularly as in my world, an object can belong to more than one category at a time, and if I’m not mistaken, here a topic can only belong to one category – which seems more in line with the board or room metaphor)

I just followed the link you gave me about structured tagging, and I think I’ve just understood what is breaking my brain a bit. Actually, the things called “tags” in Discourse are what I’d call categories, as they can be pre-created and structured pretty much like an ontology. They can also (maybe) be used as what I call tags, but I’m not certain of that yet: can I “brainstorm-type” 6-8 tags for my topic with very little friction, in true folksonomy-style?
And then, discourse “categories” are actually something I’d be more enthusiastic labelling (as mentioned above) “board” or “space” or “forum” or “room”… Maybe in my diabetic cat world I’d go along with the veterinary clinic metaphor and my discourse categories could be:

  • reception desk
  • waiting room
  • office (where the IT guy/gal sits)
  • consultation room (and maybe you’d have different consultation rooms: the nutritionist, the behaviour specialist, and of course, the endocrinologist)
  • ER
  • store
  • funerarium (though we won’t call it that :anxious_face_with_sweat:)
  • break room

hmmm maybe something to think about!

edited to add: there would also probably be a resident psychologist/social worker in that clinic!