Duplicate/Should Have Searched flags

For forums with feature request / bug report categories, it’s not uncommon for duplicate bug reports / feature requests to be filed. For all forums, there’s the issue of people not liking to use the search feature and immediately jump to posting whatever is on their mind. The forum I’m part does have feature requests / bug reports, and while we don’t use Discourse (yet), both the existing forum software and Discourse do not provide good ways for dealing with both duplicates and people who neglect to use the search feature (yes I’m aware Discourse suggests similar posts when you’re drafting your own, but more on that later).

With duplicate reports/requests, I’ve noticed that even when someone points out that it’s a duplicate feature request, no matter how nice or mean they word it, and regardless if it’s the first reply on the topic or not, discussion still continues. Forum members will prefer to discuss features / bugs on the most recent topic, probably because one or all of the following:

  • it feels wrong for them to resurrect a topic that hasn’t been posted on in so long
  • they want to respond to someone’s suggestion/outlook but it’s only on the new topic and not the old one
  • they didn’t see the “this is a duplicate topic” post and continue leaving feedback on the topic

It’s really difficult to manually moderate that kind of stuff and merge topics so often – I really like the way Discourse headed with the automatic flagging system that took the workload off the moderators’ backs, and duplicate post flagging could do some good.

As for posting topics before using the search feature, it becomes a problem because:

  • People make a goof every now and then and forget to use the search feature, but similar to how even though birthdays are rare, only taking 0.27% (a single day) of the entire year, so many people exist on Earth that there are countless birthdays per day, because of the volume of members on the forum it’s not uncommon to see posts that could have been answered by searching because there are such a large amount of people tripping up occasionally.

  • Since there isn’t a “should have searched” flag to slowly eat away at their trust level and boot them out if and when they continue to ignore the search feature because they don’t feel like using it, manual moderation is the only way to get rid of these people. “Oh you should have used the search” isn’t exactly “this guy should be removed” material, so this results in these people never being removed and they continue to poison the forum. This manual moderation babysitting is also the exact opposite direction of the one Discourse is going in the event that moderators actively work to oust these types of people.

  • Just linking to topics where the question has already been answered does not motivate people to use the search feature in the future (this comes from personal experience – they don’t realize they’re inconveniencing others when they could have just searched it themselves), telling them “please use the search feature” (either on their topic or in a PM) comes off as rude, and since you’re calling them out they get super defensive about it or they just don’t care that they’re inconveniencing other people and in either case telling them doesn’t work.

Looking back at “Your topic is similar to”,

forum members may forget that it exists after a certain period of time, ignore it and not care about it, or close it because it gets in the way. It also may not provide perfect matches to similar topics and posters would assume there was no similar topic even though they would have found it through the search feature. Additionally, we’ve had problems with topics where they start repeating themselves ever couple of pages – people are lazy and don’t want to read the whole topic before posting so they end up asking the same questions over and over and over. We can’t start booting people left and right for this because so many people do it, and just telling them not to doesn’t stop them from doing that in the future. I’d also like to point out that StackExchange has the “your topic is similar to” notification as well, but the community can still flag topics as duplicates – it’s because the “your topic is similar to”, while helpful in solving the problem, does not solve the problem completely.

Getting a PM that says your post/topic has been hidden because it was flagged by the community and knowing that if you continue that behavior you will eventually get booted from the community provides excellent motivation to improve behavior, and I’m sure the Discourse team knows that very well. It would be amazing if there were flags for duplicate posts / should have used the search feature or read the topic in general so duplicate posts and people who are too quick to post manageable, and preventing moderators from having to babysit the forum with manual moderation every time this occurs. When flagged for being a duplicate topic, it should automatically either be merged with the original topic or closed and linked to the original topic (merging it directly might result in weird results). When flagged for not using the search feature / reading the topic, the post should be hidden automatically like if it were spam and the poster notified in their inbox that it had already been answered (with links people provided to the post(s) that had answered their question).

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This is a lot of words to process. What is your proposal? Can you post a visual mockup of how it would work?

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My TLDR, he is asking for a new flag type.

Honestly I do not think its such a big deal to reply with a comment and flag for moderation.

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Thank you for the quick responses! You are correct in your summarization of the original post (actually two flag types though). The forum software I use currently requires manual moderation of duplicate threads / posts. I am speaking through personal experience that manual moderation does not work.

Asking things that have already been answered on the same thread seems innocent enough that forum moderators won’t delete them (they’d have to micromanage the forum to do that even if they opted to, so they wouldn’t want to bother with it), and then a couple of pages later it’s grown out of control and further pages are almost exact duplicates of previous pages. This is why I ask for an automatic way to deal with people who don’t read threads before posting – threads that repeat themselves are not useful for feedback, and when you get to the point where people are saying the same thing repeatedly the forum staff bail out since it’s not worth the effort to sift through duplicate posts (again, coming from personal experience). After the thread is abandoned by the forum staff, further feedback by forum members is for naught. Flags were created so the moderators wouldn’t have to get involved in every little problem – this seems like it fits into exactly what flags were created for.

As for the duplicates, ask yourself why they are a problem. It separates discussion on the same topic into multiple threads, making it difficult and more time consuming for developers to gather feedback. In the case of the forum I’m a part of, the developers and staff members are the same, so with reporting duplicates and having the staff take care of it, does that really help? Instead of spending time sifting through duplicate threads, they’re now manually having to micromanage the forums. Manual reports sadly do not solve the problem. This is why I am requesting a flag to mark posts as duplicates.

tl;dr duplicate flag and “use search / read thread” (for lack of a better name) flags

Just for reference, I’m assuming the “Something Else” under flagging does not automatically hide posts and that moderators have to manually jump in if a post is flagged for something else. Is this a correct assumption? As the forum I used hasn’t switched to Discourse yet, all I have to go on is this topic on flags, and codinghorror mentions:

Since “something else” can be an infinite number of reasons, I thought filing a flag under “something else” did not apply to this since three different flags could be for completely different things. If 3 “something else” flags automatically hides posts, then there is no need for two new flags – users can still help keep the community clean with something else without having to wait for moderators to manually clean up posts.

The modal currently has 5 options
3 Flags in the proper sense

  • Off-topic
  • Inappropriate
  • Spam

and 2 Messages

  • to the poster
  • to Moderators (the “something else”)

The Messages do not “Flag” nor count as Flags against the member

The “something else” can be a lot of things, including
The post needs MarkDown formatting
The member didn’t Edit a prior post but made another, identical but with additional text
The replies have become redundant and the topic should probably be closed
The member had poor luck in a category and instead of asking for the topic to be moved started another cross-post in a different category

I may be a “softie” but IMHO though they do cause more work for Moderators they are for the most part not “offenses” unless and until a member intentionally continues the practice.

I’d say that for our Moderators the most common issue is posts needing MarkDown formatting. (well, that and asking “please provide more information”)

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Yes. (Just in case that wasn’t clear from @Mittineague’s explanation of the options.)

It’s a useful option, because it lets the member flagging explain what they think is wrong, but leaves it to mods to deal with. So duplicate topics, “should be merged with …”, “should be split”, “should be moved to…” are all suitable here.

https://community.signalusers.org/ 上,我们每天大约有 15 个重复帖子。如果论坛用户能够将某个主题或帖子标记为重复,并提供其重复的目标主题链接,将非常有帮助。当版主确认后进行的标准操作是:将该主题隐藏、锁定,并添加一条帖子:“本主题是 [其他论坛主题链接] 的重复,因此已关闭。”

这已经可以实现了吧?

  • 点击“标记”按钮
  • 选择“其他”标记类型
  • 输入“重复于”
  • 粘贴链接
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此外,如果将此作为标记的默认理由,将迫使希望使用此软件的社区将“禁止重复主题”作为指导原则。虽然重复主题在大多数地方通常不受欢迎,但对其中极少数社区而言可能并非如此。我可能会支持允许管理员添加自定义的预设标记理由,尽管我相信应该已有相关请求。不过,“其他”选项通常也能很好地发挥作用。

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我缺少的不仅仅是标记功能,更重要的是版主处理重复话题时可采取的操作。我希望有一个选项,在同意标记后,可以执行以下操作:

  1. 隐藏该话题
  2. 锁定该话题
  3. 以系统身份发布:“此话题是 [url] 的重复。”

这样可以防止在搜索话题时再次推荐该话题,
阻止人们继续在这个重复的线程中讨论,
并通过一条帖子向所有仍访问该话题的用户说明其被锁定和隐藏的原因,以及原始话题的位置。

目前,我们手动对每个重复话题执行这些步骤,但这非常耗时。

我所寻找的可能不是标记功能,而是“作为重复话题关闭(指向 [url])”这一操作。

是的,但作为 Stack Overflow 的创始人,我可以告诉你,你所要求的难度远远、远远、_远远_超出你的想象。

人们_真正_想要的是一个神奇的“自动检测重复内容并为用户修复”按钮,而实现这一点……令人惊讶地困难。基本上,你永远无法战胜一支由随机输入的人组成的无限大军,他们不愿或无法在发帖前先进行搜索。你唯一能做的,就是让发帖变得更加困难,从而_迫使_他们去做本应在最初就完成的搜索工作。

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但你现在说我已经在要求这样一个自动化功能了。我不需要像 Stack Overflow 那样处理数百万的访客。我们每天大概只有 30 个新话题,其中一些是重复的。我们还有空间进行人工审核,甚至进行一些讨论。我所要求的,是不必重复执行以下操作:点击“同意”,点击“隐藏”,再找到该话题,点击“锁定”,然后发帖“这是 [复制粘贴的 URL] 的重复”。

如果标记为“重复自”,并要求标记者提交一个 URL,那就意味着该 URL 对版主来说已经现成可用,他们只需同意或拒绝即可。如果版主同意,标准操作可以是自动锁定、隐藏,并发布一条自动回复“这是 [URL] 的重复”,而版主无需离开审核队列。

这并不是那种全自动的系统,只是比我们目前拥有的再多一点自动化而已。

根据我的经验,用户不会执行你要求他们做的任何事,也不会阅读屏幕上显示的任何文字。

考虑到这一局限,**版主**工具仍有改进空间,因为我确实认为版主(通常)会执行你要求他们做的事,也会阅读屏幕上的内容……因此,或许可以专注于这一方面。

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很好。顺便一提,单独设立“重复”标志的想法,只是为了鼓励举报者提供原始话题的链接。在我管理的论坛上,用户通常会用“重复于 [url]"作为描述来举报其他内容。我希望能抓取该链接,并让系统发布一条“官方”声明,确认这确实是该链接的重复内容。为此,我提议设立单独的“重复于”标志,这样输入内容就只需提供所需的链接。

在版主视图中,如果能显示所引用(据称是原始的)话题的标题和日期,将会很有帮助。

此外,如果能按“重复”类型的标志来筛选审核队列,那就太好了。

当然,如果您能提供一个粗略的模型,重点展示我们可以如何改进这里的版主工具,那将非常有帮助。

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