16 months is not really that old. There’re many devices that «are stuck» but considering that overall Firefox 78 (and earlier) is capable of handling content on such sites as Facebook, Vimeo and Youtube, as well as non-Discourse powered forums, the fact that forum software abandons browsers, feel uneasy. Discussion boards have always been about text, not fanciness. Cutting off capable browsers on the grounds of it being 16 months old is not justified from the POV of the user.
Can the support be restored? Its absence severely affects my ability to learn by communicating with other users.
P.S. I had to use another person’s device to post this topic.
Hey @smmmx , which device/os are you using to be stuck at that version of Firefox? Mozilla themselves stopped supporting version 78 a year ago:
AFAIK Firefox 79 dropped support for macOS 10.9, 10.10 and 10.11. If you’re using one of these then it’s not really a matter of being out of date by 16 months, El Capitan (10.11) came out in 2015 (the year after Discourse launched) and runs on hardware going back to 2007. It hasn’t been updated since 2018.
As the topic you linked outlined, there are technical issues with older versions of Firefox. If would be helpful to know more about your local environment so that we can suggest possible alternatives.
Nuance: cutting off officially unsupported browsers that have quite a few bugs.
Should you expect software to keep working around bugs in browsers that have been fixed for that long already? A device that is “stuck” on FF78 is insecure in many ways. Having a device that cannot be updated after a mere 16 (26*) months, that is what is not justified from the POV of the customer. I would not recommend going on the internet with it, and IMO the device manufacturer is the entity you should address your complaint to, IF the device is indeed that new.
*) Yes, the linked topic is about Firefox 87 which is (now) 18 months old. But FF78 is 26 months old. That’s ancient for a browser.
We’re talking about FF78 ESR which ended only the last year. I don’t care about company policy and roadmap. I want to use the Internet, let alone forums with a capable piece of software. Discourse is not a media platform, nor is it a gaming platform. Cutting off browsers by forums regardless of the reason is not what I deem reasonable.
I repeat that until August FF 78 had no troubles with Discourse. I understand that was a lower version. It means there’s no reason for the trend not to continue.
Other forum platforms work perfectly well in FF78. What’s so special about Discourse which is just another discussion board software? I don’t see anything that would single it out, I expect from forums a minimum which is not to become an equivalent of Porsche.
Firefox 78 wasn’t deemed incompatible on a whim. Dropping support is typically the last resort, where the payoff outweighs the technical effort. If you’re just looking to vent then that’s fine, providing you recognize that you’re unlikely to get the solution you’re looking for.
As to your point about Discourse versus other platforms:
What are the minimum browser requirements?
Discourse is designed for the next 10 years of the Internet, so the minimum browser requirements are high.
Discourse supports the latest, stable releases of all major browsers and platforms:
Microsoft Edge
Google Chrome
Mozilla Firefox
Apple Safari
Additionally, we aim to support Safari on iOS 12.5+ until January 2023 (Discourse 3.0).
It doesn’t mean you have no options though. If you’re willing to share more information on your system we might be able to help you find a solution. That’s why we’re here on meta, responding on our weekends.
That’s the Extended Support release and its extended support, well, ended, more than 10 months ago. So even Mozilla does not support this browser any longer.
This seems more like a vent than a request for an actual solution, since you’re not sharing any more info about your environment.
If you’re not willing or able to update your browser, OS or device then I’m afraid there isn’t a solution. I highly doubt that someone will backport a workaround for an old bug in a third party product - that already has been fixed by said third party.
I got bitten by this when trying to log into a web site after a long absence. Suddenly, my Firefox was not acceptable.
Exactly what is the limit on Firefox? What version? Why?
That statement, that
Discourse is designed for the next 10 years of the Internet, so the minimum browser requirements are high.
Discourse supports the latest, stable releases of all major browsers and platforms:
really offers no technical information. Does this mean that any version of Firefox that is acceptable at this moment will be acceptable for the next 10 years? Or does it mean that at any moment, Discourse determines the most recently released version of Firefox and demands that I be using it?
How about phrasing the requirement in terms of capabilities? Does Discourse require HTML5? Does it require a particular version of ECMAScript?
I could live with a warning that my experience might not be as wonderful as it would be if I would just update my browser. What I object to is not being allowed to use a web site because it chose to use Discourse, and Discourse chose to deliberately disable functions when it saw what browser I was using. I’m willing to bet that my browser would do just fine, but we’ll never know.
(In case anyone cares: It was not that I was not allowed to view the web site of my choice. It was that I was not allowed to try to log in because my browser was “unsupported”. I have dealt with the problem. I do not need advice on how to update my browser, choose another browser, or find a different web site.)
For the actual version of Discourse, I would guess, yes. So if you neither update your discourse version nor your browser, it should still work in 10 years.
Why should an actual discourse version still support legacy browser versions, which aren’t even supported by their maintainer anymore?
Because many users continue using their versions of a browser despite the developer dropping maintenance for the reason of not being able to update either software or hardware. Having to buy a new computer or update an operating system to retain the capability to post on a forum is too radical.
Welcome to the Internet. Or like Angela Merkel said (around 10 years ago)
The Internet is new territory for all of us.
I’m writing this text on a Lenovo T430. It’s ~10-year-old hardware, using QubesOS with the actual versions and running like a charm. (You can get a used one cheaper than a raspberry pi…) So I can’t understand the problem with old hardware.
If you want to make fewer updates, there are long-time-support versions, like Firefox ESR. When you can visit an online forum, you should also be able to update your browser online.
And no one forces you to update your discourse installation. But if you want to use actual versions, you’ve to use an actual browser (for many reasons).
I’m not running a forum. I’m a user of one of the Discourse-powered boards. I don’t care about the underpinnings of forum sites as long as I’m able to do 2 things: (1) log into a forum and (2) add messages to the forum’s discussions. Discourse’s rapid pace has nothing to do with the Internet but with the “support-newest” philosophy of their team wanting to promote their product by more sites adopting it across the industry. There’re other forum platforms with fewer compatibility issues.
I also gather this board has a lot of aficionados who’re sticking up for the software they think the world of, no matter the user experience.
I don’t get it, @smmmx. Any actual browser is supported and becomes unsupported some time after its end of life.
Version upgrades and EOL are done for good reasons, regardless of discourse. Look and feel are a matter of taste. Security updates aren’t.
So why should time and work be invested to support browser versions that nobody should use anymore? If they were still good to use, they weren’t EOL.
Discourse is the 100% open source discussion platform built for the next decade of the Internet, as the team says about it here, not the place to feel like in the 90s.
It sounds to me like you have an aversion to Discourse itself and its success and are now just looking for reasons why.
That goes some way to explain your lack of understanding. The operators of those communities will be updating the community software to add features, improve performance and resolve technical issues.
The web moves pretty quickly these days, more and more sites are transitioning from flat HTML pages to applications delivered through a browser. Discourse is a single-page javascript app, and relies on lots of modern browser technologies. While not quite on the bleeding edge, it’s right there at the forefront.
Comparing Discourse to other major internet destinations, Facebook tells users to use the latest version of the big four browsers (Safari, Chrome, Firefox and Edge) whereas Twitter extends that support to releases from the last year.
vBulletin, which was ostensibly the de facto forum product for many years prior to the arrival of Discourse, has also moved toward a more forward-facing model. vBulletin 5 requires Firefox 70, Chrome 70, Edge 80, and the latest version of Safari. Firefox 70 is less than a year older than Firefox 78.
We offered to help you find solutions four or five months ago, and to some degree that offer still stands. Before that can happen though, you probably need to accept that the web isn’t what it was ten or even five years ago. Developers want to deliver more compelling experiences, and doing so requires more modern browsers. If nothing else it’s pretty unreasonable to expect Discourse to continue supporting a browser version that the developers themselves have abandoned.
I emphasized the important bit in bold - the latest stable versions. You’re going to need to keep your browser relatively up-to-date. That isn’t Discourse-specific.
Let’s be clear here, it’s not your Firefox, it’s Mozilla’s Firefox, and a version which they abandoned some time ago. You’re welcome to keep using it if you insist, but the internet is going to feel smaller and smaller every day as a consequence.
Again that speaks to a certain intent, I can’t fathom the inflexibility in these responses. Did Firefox 78 pull your family from a burning building? If you’re intent on using old hardware or an older operating system then you’re going to need to investigate alternatives, browsers don’t abandon older operating systems for no good reason.
We do know, because the team told is that Firefox < 89 had bugs with text manipulation. You can read the bug for yourself. There’s no conspiracy here.
I would strongly recommend you both stop looking for crop circles, we can’t wind the clock back on the internet for you. Solutions almost certainly exist for your problems, if you’re willing to embrace them.
Were you around in the '90s? Was Discourse v1&2 “the '90s” too? How is it that it has coped to version 3 and this still is about weeding out “the feel of the '90s”?
Some boards use earlier versions of Discourse and I didn’t notice anything to presume the user experience of using these sites is not up to the task.
On the other hand, to get a feel I go to a museum, not the Internet.
I know that tech is moving quickly “these days” as it used to in every period of the last 50 years. This is market speak.
– as is this. I think I already noted I realize this is a place where Disourcse software adepts and progress champions meet.
I use Twitter, and Tweetdeck in FF 78 without a hitch, just like Facebook, Youtube, and a pile of other media platforms. Firefox Legacy 68 delivers even better performance. All this regardless of official requirements. Maybe you shouldn’t stick to taking them word for word too?
Not to mention that those listed above aren’t forums but social media. The quoted statement cites categories irrelevant to the specifics that Discourse is tailored to. To use social media, I’m not going to a discussion board.
vBulletin5 requires Firefox 70 and later, which fits perfectly with the revision of Firefox, the issue of the compatibility with which I brought up. Discourse raises this bar by cutting off 20+ subsequent iterations, so it turns out that even Firefox 8x is “ancient”. Inferring from that, had the power engine of a board been vBulletin, not Discourse, I wouldn’t have faced the problem. Everything is possible, it’s just a matter of philosophy.
