Hi there,
Why does Discourse prevent users to login, on every Discourse Community, with not-so-old smartphones running on iOS 14.8, iOS / Safari 14.8, Chrome 113, Opera 14.0.1 ?
There is this script: https://global.discourse-cdn.com/business7/assets/browser-update-6b7b897b96bd83d8e5ed48d31f4871dc0b3225f920b75e6bcd83a357a4400291.br.js
that is seemingly preventing users to login.
Why ?
I found half an answer here 
@david , It’s a shame and if I understand it properly it’s absurd.
I own an iPhone 12 mini under iOS 14.8.
Because of your policy, and obvious love for planned obsolescence, I can’t login on any Discourse community anymore, and users are let alone with 2 choices.
Either they upgrade their phone, which will make the phone slower, as always, because manufacturers want that,to push customers to buy new devices every 9 months;
Or, they stop using Discourse because they cant login. Because Discourse put an unnecessary piece of js code somewhere, to block “old” browsers
I seriously doubt that a login button needs the latest version of the latest software.
This is totally absurd.
I won’t buy a new phone because of Discourse,
and I won’t upgrade because of Discourse neither.
Ciao Discourse 
While I don’t know why, there is probably a very good reason as to why Discourse no longer supports those devices.
If you update your iPhone OS, you’ll be able to access Discourse sites normally.
The iPhone 12 mini supports iOS 16/17.
On Apple platforms, browser updates (and support) are tied to the OS.
Yes: Apple has discontinued support for iOS 14 as all devices that support 14 can also use 17.
I understand the frustration, but be aware that even security updates aren’t pushed to iOS 14 anymore, which is a greater concern than not being able to use a website.
Thanks for your answers but,
@supermathie I know. So, you suggest that I make my phone slower, just to access Discourse, by upgrading it, every 6 months, and that i keep buying phones after phones just to be able to access Discourse ? I don’t think this is normal. Planet Earth won’t thank us for that…
@Canapin Do you mean, the kind of security updates that might be a concern for 0.000001% of the worldwide population? Those who might be concerned by these security updates are really not many. And if they are important/at risk enough, they know that they should keep their phone up-to-date.
It’s very unlikely that 99.999999% of the population is at risk because they don’t upgrade their phone… I don’t see why all these possible users should be forbidden to use Discourse unless they upgrade their phone. iOS 14.8 is 2 years old. In comparison, Internet Explorer had been supported for 14 years.
This is a commercial reason, because they want to sell more phones. It has been the same cycle since the first iPhone back in 2007; it is not a “very good reason”. It is a bad one.
Out of all the websites that I reach with my browser, the only web resources that I cannot access are the ones of Discourse.
Back to the core issue: Why do you need iOS 15.7 for a login button?
Cyclists are expected to wear helmets. Why would it make sense for a service provider such as a restaurant, to refuse serving cyclist who don’t wear any helmet?
Assuming upgrades were really critical, then smartphones users would be expected to update their software. Why would it make sense for a service provider such as Discourse, to prevent users to click on the login button?
What is the relation between the login feature and the security issues?
There are always been security breaches everywhere; there will always be. If this was a real issue, we should all quit browsing, then.
A discussion on why/when we should upgrade out phones might be endless. If I want to take “risks”, assuming they exit, by not upgrading, it’s my choice. But, I do not get why Discourse requires me to upgrade my browser, while Discourse risks nothing. WIthout the above mentioned JS script, it’s quite sure that I could login without problem. Maybe, some flex box won’t be aligned properly. Maybe the experience won’t be great. But at least, I would be able to login. Please make this possible, independently of the phone’s age.
P.S : I don’t get why my original post was flagged.
This is not the case.
We rely on web features not available on the version of Safari on your phone.
Perhaps we are being misunderstood.
You do not need a different phone. You only need to update your current phone.
Ok, then I’m wrong about this point
Which feature exactly, for a login/login button process? How did you do, before iOS 14?
I can login on my bank and to many other services that do require security. But I can’t login on Discourse, which is a forum. A very nice and modern one, but still, a forum.
No misunderstanding there;)
I perfectly understand that Discourse wishes that I upgrade my phone, which will make it slower. Which, eventually, will make my phone obsolete. And, in the end, will be an incentive to buy a new phone. By running after the updates, the lifespan of a smartphone is significantly reduced. At some point my old 3GS iPhone did need 4-6 second to send a SMS. While mobile phones have been able so send SMS, smoothly, faster, for decades. Sometimes it’s worth questioning what we’re doing…
The whole system is based on “software update, then hardware upgrade”. People update their OS, the phones get less reactive, people buy new phones, the marketshare of the previous generation decreases, which serves as a justification for service provider to drop support, and so forth an so on.
Discourse was perfectly working when iOS 14.8 was out there. It was working when iOS 12 was working out there too.
So. Why don’t you “freeze” a version for these iOS ? There are desktop version, mobile versions. Why don’t you keep a “Legacy version” with basic functionalities, on which users with “old” smartphones would be redirected?
What kind of special feature make the login so impossible with iOS 14.8 ? (While it was possible1 year ago)
i find this line of argument confusing. you admit yourself that you can upgrade your phone but choose not to because of the iOS being slower (i wonder how much slower 
). but then you appear to be implying that it’s on Discourse to provide you with software to run on the old iOS that Apple does not support. also your phone is far from obsolete. you seem more concerned about speed and eventual obsoletion that hasn’t happened yet, than you are about securing your phone. i would argue the majority of mobile users would not feel this way, and i am not sure why anyone would really.
as an admin of a Discourse forum, i would most definitely not want any of my users having their phone security compromised because my software vendor thought it was a good idea to allow outdated scripts to run on an old mobiles. unfortunately, backwards compatibility has limits. 
It would be good if Discourse could work on older systems for people who genuinely can’t upgrade, but I find your reasons for not upgrading your iPhone difficult to follow.
@Lilly
Hi Lilly, thanks for taking part to the discussion
The fact that iOS upgrade make the phone slower has always been true. It’s almost designed “for” that. Slowly but surely, it is what happens. You can find plenty of examples on the internet regarding this*. At every upgrade, the device is slowed down, incrementally. The same pattern exists with MacBook Pro. Why is there a new OS every year? Do we really need this?
I learned the lesson with my first smartphone, which was the iPhone 3GS. Updates after updates, it was getting slower, and slower, and slower, as written above, up to the point where it became unusable, after 2-3 years. Not directly because of hardware obsolescence, but because of the software, which make the hardware indirectly obsolete
And again, the login is not correlated with the iOS…
Why don’t have I any issue with any other service provider ? Bank, Mail, Voting system, etc ?
Discourse was perfectly reachable earlier this year, from iOS 14.8. It is Discourse who chose to remove the login feature, for this iOS. So yes, it is to Discourse to re-enable the login… The problem is not iOS. Neither my bank nor any other webservice that I use prevent me to login.
Upgrading is like smoking, in a way. Everybody knows where it leads. This is the very reason why many people don’t start. Think of the consequence. There is no need to wait until you can actually see something happen, when you can foresee it and avoid it.
The security that you are referring to really is concern for how many ? 1 thousandth of the users, maximum ? Most of the time, when reading a security patch description, it’s quite clear that the likelihood of being impacted by the issue is close to 0. In other words, negligible.
As an admin, you must be aware that nothing force you to have outdated scripts to run on an old mobile. You can change this script. Here the problem is a login feature. It’s not a sophisticated process which require the latest iOS…
Discourse is also open source and nothing is actually preventing folks from making a version for older apps or even using older versions if they really must. someone even made a terminal version. also this discussion about apple native apps may also be of interest. good luck
my ipad 6 was released 2 years before your iphone 12 mini and it works perfectly fine for Discourse. speed is most definitely not an issue, especially in mobile mode. i’ve used it for Discourse admin work coding and theme development. have you considered that some of your mobile speed issues may be network related?
This mentioned Geekbench so I downloaded that app. I’ve got the latest iOS on my iPhone 11 Pro Max and the score seems all right. You’ve nothing to worry about on an iPhone 12. It would take a lot to hobble such fast computers. I think a lot of the worry is a throwback to problems with early smartphones.
It sounds like your issue has more with the company you bought a phone from than it does with Discourse
Wrong. Discourse is the single one web service with which i have issue.
QED.
We’re all aware; question is why do they need iOS 15.7 for a login button. I’m sure it would perfectly work if I could just press on “login”.
My OS is not up-to-date. And what?
A login field. A username and a password. Why do you need iOS 15.7 for that ?
Did you try with iOS 14? Then, and only then, you could compare the delta, with your own phone.
Please try again in 12 months, on iOS 18. You’ll see 
@Jonathan5 , @piffy , @VSCPlays : Thanks for joining the discussion
I’ve bookmarked your post with a reminder on 30 June 2024
You/we/them don’t need. But you/we/them need it to use forum. User experience would be quite lousy if/when things don’t work after login
My iPhone 7 did work as fast after upgrade. Good to know 12 is worse design 
It was Apple that dropped their support first. Apple is also the reason you don’t want to update. While the consequence is that you can’t use Discourse, the actor responsible here is pretty clear.
First, let us login. Then, if the experience is really lousy, that’s another story. At least, we could login. On step at a time. Regarding the rest of the features, some will work, and other won’t. But I’m quite sure that most of the things would work iOS 14.8 is not prehistoric.
There is a difference between
After what upgrade, from what to what, and did you benchmark that?
I did own a 3GS, a 5S, a 8 after I broke the 5S, and a 12 Mini. The 3GS suffered from upgrades; the 5S was fine without the upgrades for more than 5 years; the 7 that I bought came with the latest iOS version available at that time, and eventually I got a 12, which I intend to keep on iOS 14.8 as long as possible.
The fact that the more an iPhone is upgraded, the slower it becomes, is common knowledge. You might not notice it after the first upgrade. Nor the second. But after a few upgrades, it will be.
Question is not who did what first. Question is why does Discourse require a less than 12 months old browser for the login process by requiring iOS 15.7?**. And if it does not require iOS 15.7, then why making a decision for the user? Who else prevents login from any iPhone with iOS <15.7 ?
To reply to your post, the actor is Discourse, since there are only issues with Discourse.The fact that Apple drops support for a software is uncorrelated. Apple does not make the web. They manufacture a product. Apple didnt make Discourse.
Discourse choses what device can login and which cannot. Not Apple. If Apple was the cause of the issue, we wouldn’t be able to login anywhere. Think about that
I went through the forum, and noticed that the discussion we’re having here comes quite often.
Web standards evolve. Frameworks evolve with it, as do browsers.
To make the challenge of providing a sophisticated web app tractable, all things considered, Discourse has, on balance, decided to support only the latest versions of browsers.
It would be a massively expensive burden and also limit the evolution of the product if it were to attempt to support significantly older browsers.
There is also, presumably, significant pressure to ensure the product maintains very high standards wrt security especially since the way it is funded is largely by the custom of enterprise who are especially focused on using products that maintain good security. That means keeping up with the latest versions of all libraries.
I suspect without the support of the enterprise sector, Discourse as we know it would not exist.
It’s all well and good to judge but consider all the ramifications of what you are proposing.
