Users are confused about daily like limits

Something I’ve had a lot of complaints about is the frequency of the “refill” of daily likes. It’s not a daily number. It appears to refill one at a time, based on when you use them.

A “daily” limit implies that the next day, your limit will reset and you’ll have that many again. It would make a lot more sense if that refill happened at once. TRust level access depends on unique interactions, so the daily limits don’t affect that.

This becomes a problem for our most interactive members, most of whom have already attained TL2 or TL3. They interact with our site a LOT… thousands of posts daily, in most cases. Having to wait through the strange trickle of reset is a barrier to that interaction.

I am definitely upping our like limit based on the way our users actually use the site but wanted to bring their request to the Discourse team on their behalf. I get this request constantly. We even have a thread about being in “like jail” that’s about to hit the 10k limit.

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Hmm, that’s not what I thought, but if there are nearly 10K complaints about not having enough likes, why haven’t you increased the number of likes? It seems far-fetched that when the counter starts is going to change things substantially for many people.

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Well, I did, again. Hah! I’m actually not sure what a reasonable base limit is, tbh; our community obviously uses a lot. Is there an upper limit for the base likes that I should not exceed? We actually don’t care how many they use; the more the merrier. It’s a small part of the trust system so having more hasn’t affected the trust level access portion at all.

Basically, a lotof these folks are on 24/7; they expect a rollover at some point, but that’s not the behavior they encounter. a “daily” limit implies the daily limit would reset every day, but that’s not what happens.

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Guessing this NaNoWriMo’s forum, which let’s be honest, is always gonna be kinda wonky (I say as a participant).

You’ll probably need to play with it. “Likes” are counted for a few things, check /admin/site_settings/category/all_results?filter=like. If 10,000 people like 50 things, those 50 things are gonna be hot. If that isn’t a problem currently, maybe infinite likes is okay.

Also, it could affect how folks stay at TL3, but that’s probably a separate set of concerns for a group that size.

Agree to disagree (it seems inclusive to various implications). But maybe it’s a matter of explaining that, and changing text; maybe folks take more issue with how it’s described than how it works (aside from the 10,000 un-“liked” prisoners). :slight_smile:

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Yeeeeeeah. That’s some truth. :wink:

From what I can see, that’s really not an issue. Here’s what our daily report looks like for likes:

April 1, 2020 15079
April 2, 2020 14059
April 3, 2020 11591
April 4, 2020 10774
April 5, 2020 10388
April 6, 2020 10101
April 7, 2020 12637
April 8, 2020 11253
April 9, 2020 12596
April 10, 2020 9991
April 11, 2020 9515
April 12, 2020 8996
April 13, 2020 12427
April 14, 2020 11605
April 15, 2020 13795
April 16, 2020 16213
April 17, 2020 12662
April 18, 2020 12566
April 19, 2020 11272
April 20, 2020 13804
April 21, 2020 15423
April 22, 2020 13840
April 23, 2020 14696
April 24, 2020 12972
April 25, 2020 12834
April 26, 2020 11395
April 27, 2020 11871
Totals for sample
334k

We do have TL3 privileges tuned down a bit. Some things, like post editing, have been switched over to TL2 anyway. We have the option for TL3 being able to edit turned off because we can’t differentiate TL4 (the way ours is set up, we’d LIKE to have TL4 edit but TL3 not. Not possible currently.) We don’t even encourage moderators to edit content; we prefer to ask them to edit or remove.

From a moderation perspective, I don’t give a flying fig how many likes someone has, so the defaults are fine for us there.

From what I can see, the problem is more functional than explanatory. They want to like more things, and can’t, so they are annoyed and expect to be able to like more things. The reasoning behind the limit doesn’t make sense to them, so it feels like unnecessary regulation. There’s even something of a point of pride to being out of likes; there’s a badge for it (which I’d love to automate, but that’s another topic entirely)

I think our jailbirds would be happy at having infinite likes. Does setting that limit to blank set the infinite limit? We might experiment with it and see what happens. If it throws things out of whack, well, we can reinstate the limits.

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Another thing you can do is to bump up the likes/day multiplier for all trust levels 2+ to something like 8x - so a user gets however many likes per day the base number is when they first join, and once they’ve come back for 2 weeks worth of days the ceiling shoots up.

Other forums have complained in the past about the “cliff style” of like resetting, because it has to happen on the server’s timezone instead of your timezone, which makes the debates about when a “day” starts and ends even worse.

An accurate mental model is to think of a mobile clicker game, you spend one dot every time you like a post and each dot has its own 24-hour timer before it refreshes.

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I’ve never realized that’s what the multiplier did. Without reading the field description text, and it’s proximity to the “hotness” settings, I assumed it weighed the TL’s individual like by that multiplier. Huh.

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You understand that TL3 can edit only the title and the category and tags, right? And that TL4 is not automatic? (But that doesn’t matter here)

So it sounds like there is no reason not to make this number arbitrarily large.

There are some such badges by default. . . but I guess you know that too.

Aha! I thought that was how it (once had) worked. I just missed a memo.

Oh yeah, Higher Love is already awarded to 125 people on the NaNoWriMo forum: https://forums.nanowrimo.org/badges/34/higher-love

This badge is granted when you use all 500 of your daily likes for 5 days. Thanks for taking the time actively encouraging the best conversations every day!

That’s 125 people who have each entered what your community is lovingly calling “Like Jail” five times.

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If the number is raised really high (practically infinite, if not so), that badge won’t work any longer, ne? Because they’d never hit their daily limit? New badges may be in order.

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Yes. :slight_smile: We use the TL4 designation for our local volunteers, who are contracted. The community by and large was very uncomfortable allowing others to recategorize their posts. Our community just isn’t quite wired that way. I wish I could separately allow it for the TL4s so that can moderate their local categories more effectively, but we’ve established some decent work flows so it’s not onerous.

YEah, that’ll be something they’ll miss. I’d like something similar in place. That’s less important than allow them to like stuff, though.

Hmm, is the Higher Love hard coded to 500 as per the description, or is it the actual max number that changes based on setting?

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Looks like it’s pulling the actual maximum from the settings, but intentionally ignoring the multiplier.

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It actually is sort of automated (well, was). I wrote a script that checks for the Out of Love badge for anyone who posts in that thread since the script last ran and it grants the badge automatically in that case using the API. :slight_smile:

This is actually something I’ve been meaning to post about because it comes up a lot in relation the subject of running out of likes. Many of the NaNo users have received the message about having used their limit but never get the related badges.

As best I can tell it appears the day for the badges resets at midnight server time, but the daily limit is basically a rolling 24 hour window.

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That is the behavior. It is in UTC time zone. This is already how it works.

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That’s not been my experience or that of other users on the NaNo forums.

Several users have had the situation where they used their likes and received the message telling them they had to wait x amount of time. When doing so they would sometimes like one post and then trying to like a second one would trigger the wait message again. Usually they can get a few likes in before the wait message comes up again. The only way they consistently get the full count of likes is waiting 24+ hours.

I’ve personally seen it happen on my dev install but I originally just chalked it up to the way I use the API to populate my dev install with content hitting some rate limit.

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You are referring to two different things — a spam rate limiter (press the button as fast as you can) and the daily limit.

Sorry, I should have explained this better. The script I use to populate my dev install was rewritten after I thought it was hitting a rate limit.

It was rewritten specifically to not like things as quickly as possible. It only initially likes 5 posts (the daily limit I set to make testing easier) over a 2 hour period. The rest of the testing was entirely human interaction via my browser.

I should add that I run multiple copies of the script on different Digital ocean hosts each with their own admin generated APi key for the accounts. The idea is to simulate real traffic as much as possible. So in theory if I’m hitting a spam limit it would have to be based on something other than the IP or user account.

I won’t discount that some of the NaNo users are hitting a spam limit. Some of them definitely enjoy liking things. :slight_smile:

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The daily limit is using the same code as our spam rate limiter (RateLimiter.new).

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Not really a fan of this topic, since it perpetuates a myth – likes do reset every day at UTC 00:00.

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