Continuing the discussion from Improve desktop view for mobile:
Didn’t want to hijack the original topic any more, but why is AI helper/proofread TL3-only?
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Sure, I bumped it to trust level 1. We are using self-hosted llama so costs are not huge concern here. cc @saif / @Falco
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Awesome. A little bit off-topic or maybe not…
Maybe I should say: TL3 is too difficult to reach/maintain. I consider myself pretty active and feel part of the community, yet struggle reaching (back) to TL3. I was planning on doing a feedback topic regarding this at some point after the Skool topic as I think Discourse can definitely improve here.
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Reading requirements for TL3 are quite high.
On meta at the moment they are at 6302 posts and 500 topics.
Even I, a pretty highly active meta user, only have 7505 read posts in the past 100 days.
Trust is a tricky thing; there is something that feels a bit off about the huge reading requirements.
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I see trustworthiness as “this persons consistently behaves in a way that benefits our community”. Whilst high reading numbers shows the user has seen plenty of content, it doesn’t necessarily mean they behave in a way that benefits the community.
Perhaps instead of minimums values in the settings, we could have weighted inputs to result in an overall trust score? Something similar to the cheers score.
Perhaps things like staff/senior approval? A measurement for this might be number of likes from users in valuable groups(like staff). The more likes you have from staff the more points you get. Likes from TL4 score slightly less, and TL3 even less etc.
Perhaps things like contributions and involvement? E.g. Being accepted as a member of “Theme Creator” or “Theme Author” groups could add a distinct value to the trust score, rather than just setting a trust level explicitly?
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I agree that reading is important and I suppose that the idea is: The more you read the more you know therefore, you are a valuable member as you can assist others more easily. Which is true but as Tristan said above, reading lots does not always equate to being helpful etc in the community.
But its not always fair[1]. For example earlier this year I was TL3. I went away for a while and I dropped down a TL as I didn’t read as much. My knowledge of Discourse is still there and I was still posting in support etc. albeit not so often. It doesn’t bother me as such anyway I just logged in one day and was like “Oh? where’d #lounge go 
”
Probably the wrong word to use? ↩︎
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The number thresholds can be kind of arbitrary, and being demoted to a lower “Trust Tier” for not reading enough over past 100 days does seem unusual. Better label for that could be a lower “Reader Tier” or tier of most active members.
I had similar experience at site once where all of a sudden where did the lounge category go, I had started topics in that but now I can’t see them! Had stopped being as active of a member/reader since there was too much overwhelming new topics couldn’t filter through all of that.
Then to be promoted back only way is to read or skim through more topics not too difficult but not necessarily in correspondence with someone’s trustworthiness how much they read.
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Completely agree. What value does it bring to the community when we drop the trust level of a valuable member who happened to take a break?
I’ve seen Jeff mention several times the importance of reading and I also fully align with that. It’s an important factor; but not the only one. I assume this is why like count etc is also included, but I feel like this could still be refined further.
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Is it just reading? I had it in like 2022 but lost it and never got it back… it’s a little hard to maintain 3000 read posts on a support forum. Should probably be halved at minimum and I’ve always disliked the ability for people to lose TL3 but that’s more of a fundamental thing
No, there are a lot of other requirements:
Trust Level 3 – Regular
Regulars are the backbone of your community, the most active readers and reliable contributors over a period of months, even years. Because they’re always around, they can be further trusted to help tidy up and organize the community.
To get to trust level 3, in the last 100 days…
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Must have visited at least 50% of days
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Must have replied to at least 10 different non-PM topics
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Of topics created in the last 100 days, must have viewed 25%(capped at 500)
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Of posts created in the last 100 days, must have read 25% (capped at 20k)
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Must have received 20 likes, and given 30 likes.*
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Must not have received more than 5 spam or offensive flags (with unique posts and unique users for each, confirmed by a moderator)
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Must not have been suspended or silenced in the last 6 months
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These likes must be across a minimum number of different users (1/5 the number), across a minimum number of different days (1/4 the number). Likes cannot be from PMs.
All of the above criteria must be true to achieve trust level 3. Furthermore, unlike other trust levels, you can lose trust level 3 status. If you dip below these requirements in the last 100 days, you will be demoted back to Member. However, in order to avoid constant promotion/demotion situations, there is a 2-week grace period immediately after gaining Trust Level 3 during which you will not be demoted.
Users at trust level 3 can…
- Recategorize and rename topics
- Access a secure category only visible to users at trust level 3 and higher
- Have all their links followed (we remove automatic nofollow)
- TL3 spam flags cast on TL0 user posts immediately hide the post
- TL3 flags cast on TL0 user posts in sufficient diversity will auto-silence the user and hide all their posts
- Make their own posts wiki (that is, editable by any TL1+ users)
- Daily like, edit, and flag limits increased by 2×
Admins can change these thresholds by searching for TL3 in site settings.
Well, yeah, I knew that. I owned a site a long while ago - but i don’t really remember those default values.
I didn’t remember how high these are, damn. No wonder I fell out of TL3, that’s a lot of posts. Could be cool to see it lowered (and remove the ability for us to fall below again 
)
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In theory makes sense that only the most active members would be at the top trust tier able to do some quasi-moderation in changing titles and categories of posts. Not sure how well this works in practice for different use-cases, may not always be the best.
The caps of 500 topics and 20,000 posts are a lot to read if there are that many.
Well, I would say reading isn’t that hard. All that’s needed is no life and too much spare time 
. Needed likes are a different story, because given likes will lead to inflation of reactions and getting likes tells about others’ reactions.
I don’t even know my TL. I don’t need that information. Probably I’m at TL3 because I can use proofread and translations, unless the limits of AI use are downsized. But hey, I can give those rights to someone who hasn’t the time to read practically everything here, if I can keep proofreading, translations, and explaining 
.
But at a meta level.
Those limits should be as low as possible until some problems start to arise. And after that, there is a real reason to tighten them up. Sure, sometimes an anticipatory counterattack is needed, but not so often (unless the niche of a forum is risky for spamming).
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