Newly-created "unlisted" Topics send "new topic" Notifications

[MoltonMontro (Tyler)]

Perhaps the title is rather verbose, but I am assuming that this is unintended. As a staff member (or a TL4 user), I can create topics as unlisted by default (rather than having to create the topic and then unlist it).

Since this is available prior to posting, I would imagine that the intended usage (when doing prior to topic creation) would perhaps be rough drafting, or having the opportunity to double-check markdown prior to public viewing. Perhaps an intended usage would be for the topic itself being intended to as direct-link–only.

To clarify on the bug: if a user has set their Preferences to give them automatic notifications for new topics created in a category, and staff then create a new topic (manually set to “unlisted” prior to posting), those users will receive a direct notification about the new topic being posted (and the “unlisted” aspect is nearly redundant, in some situations).

This is a minor (perhaps cosmetic, in some situations) inconvenience that can affect some users. Or, if a site has set default notification settings for certain categories (e.g., announcements, updates, events), then it can affect everyone who has an account and hasn’t chosen to change their default notification preferences.

If this is the intended functionality (that newly-created unlisted topics still send out “new topic” notifications), then my suggestion would be to have it not do that. While it would make sense to send out notifications for other things happening with the topic (e.g., replies, likes), I don’t think it makes sense for “new topic” notifications to be sent.

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EDIT: It’s quite possible that this is intended and that instead of fulfilling my suggestion / bug report, that a more appropriate action would be to direct me to use the “shared drafts” functionality.

I don’t think that “shared drafts” cover every use-case for unlisted topics though, so perhaps I’m trying overthinking the functionality of unlisted topics and everything is functioning as intended. But if that’s the case, then it seems a bit “meh” to have the ability to toggle unlisted/listed prior to topic creation, besides for consistency, if it doesn’t offer any extended use-cases.

[ganncamp (G Ann Campbell)]

I guess this explains why I just got a like from a TL2 user on a new, unlisted post (which I’ve just deleted because… no one was supposed to see it, and that’s obviously not the case).

(At least he gave us a 10)

[Lilly (Lillian Louis)]

ok reiterating the need for this to be a feature / fix. there is no way an unlisted topic should be viewable until it is listed by staff so the unlisted status should always override the user category tracking settings.

Users notified of unlisted topic creation

Not sure if this is by design but it seems illogical to me. If a user is watching a certain tag or category they are notified when staff create an unlisted topic in that category.* This defeats the point of having an ‘unlisted’ topic. I understand that one can access unlisted topics with a link but a notification to the topic should not be sent to users. * [image]

i would also argue that unlisting an existing topic should override anyone’s category tracking. my view is that an unlisted topic is akin to a whisper post (they even use the same icons) and whispers certainly are not viewable by regular users watching topics. it should be unlisted for any user notification list as well as topic lists.

[anon65426961]

I agree, although this isn’t a feature I need personally today. Just saying I agree that the word “unlisted” used on other platforms such as youtube is specific in not sending out notifications about a post to subscribers of a channel, so seems like this can definitely be a problem for people thinking they’re writing a private message then to find out it may be out in the public realm what they wrote or posted.

[ondrej]

I agree with your points. Not sure why it would be ‘by design’ that a topic you don’t want being viewed is sent to everyone watching a category. I understand that unlisting a topic was

@supermathie

never intended to be secure

But all that is needed is when a new topic is toggled unlisted in the composer, when its created no notification of generated. Only for staff.

[hello-smile6 (9pfs)]

@Lilly

would also argue that unlisting an existing topic should override anyone’s category tracking.

So if a user happens to watch every category on a forum and is involved in a topic that gets unlisted, they should stop being notified for it, even though they would expect to know what happens (since they were involved)? That seems like it could create lots of edge cases.

[ondrej]

@hello-smile6

in a topic that gets unlisted

We’re not discussing unlisting that happens when people are participating in a topic as users already have the topic link. We’re discussing new topics that are unlisted before publishing. So if a topic is unlisted before publishing by rights, it would make sense that users are not notified of its existence even if they track the category until it has been listed.

[nathank (Nathan Kershaw)]

This has never made sense to me either, and in my experience severely restricts the utility of unlisted posts.

I work around this by putting the post in an appropriately secure Category (or do it as a Personal Message), but these are suboptimal as they require quite a bit of work to get access / notifications right.

I’d like category and tag watching to be ignored for unlisted posts, but respected as per usual for the specific topic/user e.g. if they are the author or have specifically watched it.

[Richie (Richie Rich)]

Bump

We have a category with the Require moderator approval of all new topics setting applied:

Every single new topic that gets created requires moderator approval before it’s listed to the world - all good, a fantastic feature for us in our use case of this specific category.

Sadly, every single user who has their preferences set to watch the first topic of that category is receiving a notification of the new topic, before we’ve even approved it

Worse still is that the notification naturally gives them a link to click on so they can not only see but also interact with the topic - defeating the whole point of the topic needing moderation

[nathank (Nathan Kershaw)]

I’m going to boldly move this to Bug - as it really is one!

[Moin]

Well, unlisted means hidden from the topic list. I think it doesn’t suppress any on-site notifications (@mentions, quotes, replies, links, likes, …).

When would users be notified of the topic if not when it’s created? Unlisting doesn’t trigger notifications

Discourse doesn't send notifications after an unlisted topic is listed

I’ve given the initial bug report a run-through and it seems to be working as usual. As test user (TL1), set a category to Watching First Post As admin, create a new topic in that category and toggle it as ‘Unlisted’ before posting A notification is sent out to the test user: [notification for new topic (unlisted)] The test user also receives notifications of Likes, Mentions and Replies for things while the topic was Unlisted as well: [notification from Unlisted] You wouldn’t normally g…

Users notified of unlisted topic creation

I’m afraid this isn’t a bug, and is working as intended. Creating an Unlisted topic removes the topic from topic and search lists, but will still send a notification to anyone Watching/Watching First Post for the category (or tag). I believe the advice for creating a topic you don’t want people to see in advance is to use a permission-controlled category (eg staff) and to manually recategorise it when ready, or Schedule Publishing from the topic timer. You can also use the Shared Draft feature …

[Moin]

I tried to reproduce this, but I wasn’t able to.

1. I created a test user who is watching my test category
2. I enabled “require moderator approval of all new topics” on my test category
3. With another test user I created a topic in the test category

Result:

• the test user who created the topic is notified that the topic queued for approval
  
  
• the admin user can see the post in the review queue, but not in topic lists like /latest
  
  
• the test user watching the category has no notification and cannot see the topic in the topic list

I am not sure how unlisting is related to this. Topics queued for approval aren’t unlisted, if they were my admin user could see the topic in the topic lists.

[Richie (Richie Rich)]

I am very sorry, I appear to have got this wrong

@nathank apologies, I’m seemingly also unable to reproduce this morning following @Moin 's steps above.

Sorry everyone

[Moin]

Any chance the user posting the topic had moderator permissions in the category? Posts of staff (and in this case also category moderators) are excluded from needing approval. They could approve them themselves anyway.

[Richie (Richie Rich)]

Quite possibly… But looking at a couple of the recent posts, I suspect this flow may have occurred:

1. New post was correctly quarantined for moderator approval
2. Moderator approved it
3. Moderator immediately unlisted it and replied to the OP requesting they make some edits
4. User made edits
5. Moderator listed the topic

What I think may have happened is that step 2 naturally (and correctly) sent a notification to everyone watching the first post in that category without the moderator realising - and the action of them immediately unlisting it was kinda too late, the notifications had already been sent.

I think they approved the post so they could then send a reply to the OP.

Sorry once again for the false alarm everyone - I am suitably embarrassed